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The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

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Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#11

My favourite Wittgenstein quote: "A philosopher who is not taking part in discussions is like a boxer who never goes into the ring."

He's right. Modern intellectual and political aversion to open competition and experimentation is, at best, unethical.

And is certainly a reflection of people's lack of REAL confidence in themselves.

This, combined with our ironically deteriorating ability to communicate in a digital age is leading down not such a bright road.

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#12

I've been told on exactly one count that my thought process echoes Wittgenstein. Here's a recording of the comment as kind of a proof of why I think this is interesting to do. Very Meta. Watch Community of you enjoy this kind of thing: Part 1: https://youtu.be/sx7K8O7IGxo Part 2: https://youtu.be/wZGvJBXOkGs I also do live thought explorations, record them, and put them on YouTube. Please come tell me why you disagre…

Rather than downvote, can someone point out why they dislike this comment? On an article on Wittgenstein's honest and fluid thinking style, I posted something similar to what the current top comment has described as the most interesting part of W's process. Thanks in advance.

I hope you don’t take offense, but I would imagine some people are turned off by your self-promotion, the length of your post, and a tone that could be interpreted as pompous.

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#13
https://youtu.be/ermZKgG4htU

>But what is most strikingly original about Wittgenstein’s account in the Tractatus is his drawing out of the implications – which are to a degree disturbing – of this conception. One implication is for values. If I think or claim that the car is in the garage, then, built into that claim is the idea that this may be true or false. But when I think that, say, slavery is morally wrong, I think something that could not be otherwise than true (even if others should disagree

I believe the solution to this lies in collective subjectivism with a fancy twist. Underlying every disagreement about such a claim, we have an implicit agreement. If I say slavery is wrong and you say you disagree, then we actually agree about something; the fact that we disagree.

That agreement underlying the disagreement gives rise to new conversational opportunity to approach a new, more fundamental point of agreement.

In this example, we could ask something like the following to our debate partner: “would you like to be owned by me?” Employing Kant’s categorical imperative (or the golden rule or bowever else this idea has been named) to demonstrate to your opponent indeed no, they would not like to be enslaved.

Following that train of logic, we can begin to piece together agreements from the disagreements that we unavoidably come across when using a tool as blunt as language to describe anything close to resembling reality.

At some point, given the good faith participation of both partners in conversation, we will be able to form more agreements, phoenixes rising from the ashes of our disagreements, that will lead to something more closely resembling a “universal truth”, truism, true objective fact, etc.

After all, true is just the word we have for something that cannot be proven false. In the same way that we just pretend money has value and so it does, true doesn’t mean anything beyond the word itself. That doesn’t necessarily make it less useful, it’s just something we need to keep in mind.

On that note, this author does a fascinating job introducing a hypothesis that an alphabet causes a society to lean to value masculine thought processes more highly. Not sure what I think about the hypothesis yet but it’s been a fascinating listen thus far.

http://a.co/49lwAZNb

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#14
post #2

Wonderful article for a short introduction into his work. He was a fascinating personality and his writings are extraordinary. He „only“ published two books in his lifetime, one being tractatus logico-philosophicus, the other being a dictionary for school children. Philosophical Investigations was published post-humously, but it is an excellent view into his mind. As mentioned in the article, there are no subsections…

I completely agree with your sentiment on our thoughts. They aren't neat and tidy. People like to pretend they are, but this simply isn't true. It's also interesting to think about exactly where these thoughts come from. Where did the thought come from for example that invoked you opening up hacker news at the time you wrote this? Where does great intuition come from? It's all fascinating whether you prescribe to a t…

“I should have liked to produce a good book. This has not come about, but the time is past in which I could improve it.” (Preface to Philosophical Investigations)

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#15

I've been told on exactly one count that my thought process echoes Wittgenstein. Here's a recording of the comment as kind of a proof of why I think this is interesting to do. Very Meta. Watch Community of you enjoy this kind of thing: Part 1: https://youtu.be/sx7K8O7IGxo Part 2: https://youtu.be/wZGvJBXOkGs I also do live thought explorations, record them, and put them on YouTube. Please come tell me why you disagre…

Rather than downvote, can someone point out why they dislike this comment? On an article on Wittgenstein's honest and fluid thinking style, I posted something similar to what the current top comment has described as the most interesting part of W's process. Thanks in advance.

You didn't contribute to the talk about Wittgenstein, but exclusively talked about yourself and things you do.

In addition, instead of explaining the relationship of your activities with Wittgenstein (that could have been an on-topic contribution), you ask the reader to watch recordings.

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#16
post #7

I recommend Monk's biography [1] and a short lecture by Wittgenstein [2] [1] https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-02-921670-5 [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2183526

There’s a nice book by Edward Kanterian called “Ludwig Wittgenstein” from Reaktion Books Critical Lives series which is quite good, and shorter than Monk’s biography.

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#17

My favourite Wittgenstein quote: "A philosopher who is not taking part in discussions is like a boxer who never goes into the ring."

He's right. Modern intellectual and political aversion to open competition and experimentation is, at best, unethical.

Could you elaborate?

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#18

My favourite Wittgenstein quote: "A philosopher who is not taking part in discussions is like a boxer who never goes into the ring."

He's right. Modern intellectual and political aversion to open competition and experimentation is, at best, unethical.

I wouldn't call it unethical, but unfair. It happens mostly in the more extreme corners of the political spectrum, whether it is right or left. That perspective of non-discussion has gained a strong foothold in the "center" unfortunately, too, recently. I believe many people have the feeling that they haven't been heard and thus are not interested in listening any more.

It's not an irreversible trend, I suppose, if each and everyone of us manages to take one step back and start listening again.

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#19
I've been a big fan of Wittgenstein since college, and have at this point read just about all of his work. I might suggest that people new to Wittgenstein start neither with the Tractatus nor with Philosophical Investigations, but with the Blue and Brown Books (you want the Blue part).

These are lecture notes toward what would later become the PI. They're way less systematic than the big two, but they'll give you a great feel for Wittgenstein's thought.

I'll also second Monk's biography, which is just superb.

One of my favorite things about Wittgenstein, is that there's a powerful strain in his thought that regards philosophical speculation as essentially a form of "madness." That is to say, if you're sitting around wondering what "justice" is or trying to figure out the mind/body distinction, you're engaging in a kind of nonsensical behavior. It is the purpose of philosophy to resolve these problems -- which, in Wittgenstein's case, often meant showing why they're nonsensical questions in the first place -- so you can go back to living your life. In Monk's biography, you often see him revolutionizing modern philosophy and then afterward going to work as a gardener.

I think this explains, in part, why he is more admired than influential in modern analytical philosophy. He is one of the many twentieth-century philosophers to suggest that the proper outcome for philosophy is to stop doing it.

[edits for typos]

Re: The relentless honesty of Ludwig Wittgenstein (2017)

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your sentiment on our thoughts. They aren't neat and tidy. People like to pretend they are, but this simply isn't true. It's also interesting to think about exactly where these thoughts come from. Where did the thought come from for example that invoked you opening up hacker news at the time you wrote this? Where does great intuition come from? It's all fascinating whether you prescribe to a t…

“I should have liked to produce a good book. This has not come about, but the time is past in which I could improve it.” (Preface to Philosophical Investigations)

The preface is actually very fun to read. Very honest, quite cynical, too.

>"[...] mainly because I was obliged to learn that my results (which I had communicated in lectures, typescripts and discussions), variously misunderstood, more or less mangled or watered down, were in circulation. This stung my vanity and I had difficulty in quieting it."

Such bare honesty! I love it.

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