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What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

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Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a cost perspective it doesn't cost that much more to educate an English major than an engineering major.

I am not sure if that is true. English professors are paid less than Eng ones and does not require expensive lab and equipment.

In all honesty, as a Materials Engineering student at a "learn by doing school", I could easily have done without the expensive lab equipment, but not without the library. I've always thought industry should be supporting the labs and having students perform some relatively basic work for them, for a random example Scanning Electron Microscope sample prep and basic analysis

Edit: not a current student and graduated 10 years ago.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#42

I strongly believe that lower cost vocational education with group housing for 18-23 year olds is part of a solution to this problem. You don't need the full college experience, but as the article mentions, getting away from home is a part of it for most.

> I strongly believe that lower cost vocational education with group housing for 18-23 year olds is part of a solution to this problem.

In other words, the Army.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#43
While we may not see a big burst, it’s possible that a generation of defaulting borrowers will gain steam. As more and more people justify and publicize non-payment, it may become politically untenable to collect on those loans.

Imagine a collective movement of 9,000,000 all ceasing to pay their student loans at once. If I thought all my friends weren’t planning on repaying, I would be quick to join them. Is the government really going to dig thousands of dollars from the bank accounts of millions of people at once?

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a cost perspective it doesn't cost that much more to educate an English major than an engineering major.

I am not sure if that is true. English professors are paid less than Eng ones and does not require expensive lab and equipment.

Yes, see here [1], for example.

[1] http://crookedtimber.org/2013/08/14/humanities-science-is-no...

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt shouldn’t guarantee any student loans. My tax dollars shouldn’t be an ATM for student tuition.

> My tax dollars shouldn’t be an ATM for student tuition. In theory tuition is a great way to spend tax dollars because it creates better educated citizens who will earn more money (and pay more taxes). In practice it does seem to be more like monopoly money that props up sub-par schools and provides even worse education to those who could benefit from it the most.

Would you say that in countries like Germany, where there is no tuition fee and university is funded with tax money, schools are sub-par because of that?

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#46
> Meanwhile, some people are more than happy to spend $100,000 on a graphic design degree that may get them a job paying roughly $40,000 a year

> A lot of that has to do with what Goldfarb likes to call the narrative—one that convinced kids that the only route to middle-class respectability was to get a college degree and that suggested failing to do so meant having failed at the American dream of upward mobility. To keep using the economist's terms, I would also say that 18-year-old high school seniors definitely qualify as "novice investors." Their philosophy can be summarized by Colin Hanks in the 2002 movie Orange County. When asked why he's so obsessed with getting into Stanford University and college more generally, he snaps back, "Because that's what you do after high school!"

Too often I see articles about student debt make a comment about how students have been tricked or misled into pursuing a degree. Why does no one talk about the alternative?

Let's talk about the alternative: You don't get a degree and now you're resume gets automatically thrown out of most applications. Only a small fraction of those without degrees manage to get well-paying jobs; they're the outliers. Albeit unrelated to employment rate, look at the salary differences: https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/educa...

Some might say it's worth making $X/yr and debt-free than making $Y/yr with $Z debt but this only holds true when Y > (P*Z + X) where P is the percentage of the total initial debt being paid off per year (e.g. P = 0.2 if you're paying $10k/yr to get rid of a $50k debt). And these values are hard to predict.

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#47

Summary of what a student loan bubble bursting would be from the article. The government would guarantee less student loans. This would be means some for profit institutions might shut down.

The govt shouldn’t guarantee any student loans. My tax dollars shouldn’t be an ATM for student tuition.

> The govt shouldn’t guarantee any student loans. My tax dollars shouldn’t be an ATM for student tuition.

I agree with the first part but not the second; there is a good case for need (personal and societal, in the latter case by field of study with public service commitment, as we use currently, in a way, for military officers) and merit based grants for higher education. Government-guaranteed, generally available loans are a bad idea, though (and making them government issued, so the guarantee is just for the secondary market, doesn't make the bad idea good.)

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#48

> Meanwhile, some people are more than happy to spend $100,000 on a graphic design degree that may get them a job paying roughly $40,000 a year > A lot of that has to do with what Goldfarb likes to call the narrative—one that convinced kids that the only route to middle-class respectability was to get a college degree and that suggested failing to do so meant having failed at the American dream of upward mobility. To…

If the only reason why your buying a degree is get past an automated resume filter, and they are all the same otherwise, then for god sakes, don't buy the porsche, buy the used toyota!

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#49

> Meanwhile, some people are more than happy to spend $100,000 on a graphic design degree that may get them a job paying roughly $40,000 a year > A lot of that has to do with what Goldfarb likes to call the narrative—one that convinced kids that the only route to middle-class respectability was to get a college degree and that suggested failing to do so meant having failed at the American dream of upward mobility. To…

> Let's talk about the alternative: You don't get a degree and now you're resume gets automatically thrown out of most applications.

The decision to get a degree is not a binary one. It's possible to get a degree in a higher-paying field. Or, go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer. Or pick a state school over a $60k/yr private school. Or choose your second choice school that offers more scholarships.

I think some of the blame rests on our guidance counselors and parents who often do little to make the connection between degrees, debt, and post-graduate earnings obvious to students. Too often the question we pose to high school juniors is "what do you like to do the most?" rather than "is there an intersection between something you like to do and opportunities for a degree-holder in that field after graduation?"

Re: What a Student Loan 'Bubble' Bursting Might Look Like

#50

Just like the housing crisis... when are we going to learn that government backed debt is a terrible thing for our nation? Creditors _should_ turn away bad lendees or cap loan limits, or increase your interest rate based on risk factors. Some exmaples of this might be: * Limiting the amount of money you can be loaned for majors that don't have good job prospects. People should turn to grants for these types of educat…

Agreed, the private sector would price in these risks, so no bubble.
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