Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 267 posts

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#151

Post by jpatokal »

hopler wrote: post #139
mav3rick wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bluster results in the first truly desirable EV cars and the first autonomous reusable rocket then more bluster please. The rage machine against Elon here is preposterous. At the end of the day , is he making the world a better place ?. No amount of contrived answers involving Twitter can change the vehement "Yes" to that question.

Tesla is one of many companies making mass market electric cars. Piling on luxury touches isn't making the world a better place. Tesla's $35K car (when if ever shows shows up) isn't better than anyone else's. He's just coming down from higher price points on fancier cars while others are improving at the same price point.

Have you driven or been in a Tesla? These are manifestly not the same cars as anyone else's.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#152

Post by kitsunesoba »

ivraatiems wrote: post #88
mav3rick wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bluster results in the first truly desirable EV cars and the first autonomous reusable rocket then more bluster please. The rage machine against Elon here is preposterous. At the end of the day , is he making the world a better place ?. No amount of contrived answers involving Twitter can change the vehement "Yes" to that question.

> At the end of the day, is he making the world a better place? With rare exception, I don't subscribe to the idea of "key men" in general, and especially not in this case. Even if I did, I don't think that Musk is acting in a way that makes him an asset. I agree that Tesla, for instance, is doing good and important work. However, I think attributing Tesla's success, and net impact on the world to Musk alone is unsup…

I would say that his contribution to Tesla is mostly a sense of urgency and direction. Certainly some more “normal” CEO could come in and make the company more profitable, but it’d come with steep cost: the company would also become very stagnant and very boring. That’d be great for Wall Street but it’d bum me out pretty badly.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#153

Post by adamqureshi »

clouddrover wrote: post #143
martythemaniak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's. The ~20x ROI since IPO has made many people trust him. Tesla itself is a marvelous success, with no established car maker able to match them yet. It is far more likely that your personal dislike of him is making you see a distorted reality.

> with no established car maker able to match them yet. The Hyundai Kona EV is cheaper, has good range, and outperforms new model Teslas in 24-hour efficiency (interestingly finishing second to the original Tesla Roadster): https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-shockingly-... https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-electr... Teslas are among the least reliable cars you can buy. If you want hi…

Do you have a list of EV direct to consumer VS Dealership / franchise model distribution? Tesla the only player in this space?

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#154

Post by xedeon »

nihonde wrote: post #42
MBCook wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not pro-Tesla, I think they’re horribly mismanaged, but let’s be real. The Model 3 is selling well, and ONLY in the US. Even if they hit peak demand they can just start selling to Europe and China (planned for later this year) and they’ll have plenty of new customers.

China has a higher barrier to entry than any other market, esp. in the EV market, which is going to favor the homegrown options. The current trade war isn’t going to help Tesla. My prediction is that Tesla remains a novelty brand in Asia. Japan is similarly capable of taking care of its own market, and I wouldn’t want to take on Toyota when it comes to exports to South Asia, Africa, etc.

> China has a higher barrier to entry than any other market, esp. in the EV market, which is going to favor the homegrown options.

Tesla is already positioned ahead of other auto makers with the construction of the Gigafactory 3 along with a deal with the Shanghai government to build a wholly-owned local factory (a notable exception).

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#155

Post by dmode »

"Automaker sold 63,150 Model 3 in the fourth quarter" - [and this is only in North America] What Tesla has achieved is truly unbelievable and it is kind of hilarious to see HN meltdown and Tesla bashing. To give you a perspective on how much of a gigantic scale this is, BMW only sold 99,000 3/4 series in the US in all on 2017 [1]. Tesla is a carmaker who only sold ~100 vehicles in 2011. It is amazing how much of Tesla's success is under-appreciated in this forum.

[1] http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-3-series-4...

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#156

Post by heavyset_go »

drcross wrote: post #127
notahacker wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a problem with drinking and am sure most CEOs drink at networking events considered part of their job, but I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability, even if it wasn't his idea. More so if their leadership was already under scrutiny and one of their businesses was entirely reliant on the patronage of an abstinence-obsessed government that wo…

>I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability. You need to lighten up. Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast. If the CEO of was on the same podcast, do you think it would have been anywhere close to as entertaining?

> Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone

Investors and board members definitely think otherwise.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#157

Post by notahacker »

drcross wrote: post #127
notahacker wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a problem with drinking and am sure most CEOs drink at networking events considered part of their job, but I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability, even if it wasn't his idea. More so if their leadership was already under scrutiny and one of their businesses was entirely reliant on the patronage of an abstinence-obsessed government that wo…

>I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability. You need to lighten up. Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast. If the CEO of was on the same podcast, do you think it would have been anywhere close to as entertaining?

> Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast

He owes a lot to his shareholders, and wiped 9% off the value of Tesla with that podcast. If he has to be entertaining as well as reassuring them he's also laser focused on solving production challenges - and CEO of an engineering company is definitely a job description where being dull is no disadvantage - there were certainly better ways of doing it.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#158

Post by jsgo »

andrewtbham wrote: post #64
golfer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are skeptical of Tesla because people are skeptical of Elon. His dozens of misleading statements and half-truths over the years have caught up with him.

This narrative doesn't resonate with me. Forward looking statements are speculative, especially when you're innovating new technologies. I personally trust Elon Musk and I am a large investor. I don't expect him to hit all his targets, but I trust him to only raise money on the heels of good news.

His pitch on the solar tiles that would cost* at or less a typical shingled roof had me incredibly sold, but it seems that has taken a back seat as of late in his endeavors. Yeah, would love an electric car, but until they hit the $35k price point, it isn't happening anytime soon for me. But a fairly priced solar setup for home? Sign me up.

* not sure if it was initial cost or cost over the life of plus the energy savings, I don't remember nor really care. Either is fine by me.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#159

Post by dmode »

clouddrover wrote: post #143
martythemaniak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's. The ~20x ROI since IPO has made many people trust him. Tesla itself is a marvelous success, with no established car maker able to match them yet. It is far more likely that your personal dislike of him is making you see a distorted reality.

> with no established car maker able to match them yet. The Hyundai Kona EV is cheaper, has good range, and outperforms new model Teslas in 24-hour efficiency (interestingly finishing second to the original Tesla Roadster): https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-shockingly-... https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-electr... Teslas are among the least reliable cars you can buy. If you want hi…

Tesla just sold 63K Model 3s in a single quarter. Despite availability of Leaf and Bolt [both are cheaper]. None of the vehicles you have listed are true competitors to Tesla at this time. True competition will be something like an electric 3 series or C-class

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#160

Post by dmode »

johnvanommen wrote: post #43
qroshan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $50B Market Cap, Tesla should be delivering at least $2B Annual profits. It's clear Tesla has run through higher margin demand. There aren't many people in the world who can afford a $50,000 car. Tesla is a niche market car, but priced as a mass market (like iPhones) product. Expect Tesla's sustainable profit to be around $500 Mil per year and it's share price must be cut in half to justify that

Once Jaguar, Porsche and Audi are able to produce electric cars in quantity, things are going to get interesting. For instance, I was recently looking at the Jaguar I-Pace, and was stunned by how long the wait and how high the markups are. Clearly there's a demand for a $100,000 electric car, but things are going to get difficult for Tesla once the competition arrives.

Chevy Bolt and Leaf have been available for a long time and had zero impact on Tesla
Post reply on HN