Is wage stagnation an actual problem? Here’s a view challenging that premise: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/myths-of-inequality-and-s...
Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
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Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#22I've often thought there should be a union in tech, similar to the way the directors guild and screen actors guild operate. Not to set maximums on compensation, but to set humane minimums and provide continuity and health insurance in a pooled way, perhaps.
Interesting idea to incentivize startups to invite the union in. I wouldn't be against joining a union (and paying reasonable dues) if it means that I also have healthcare.
Does that mean if I decide to start a venture, my venture will have healthcare from day 0? If so, that's a pretty neat idea.
EDIT: I just also thought that the interests of a union of startup developers and union of enterprise/large-co developers are quite different. Does this mean there are two different unions?
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#23I've often thought there should be a union in tech, similar to the way the directors guild and screen actors guild operate. Not to set maximums on compensation, but to set humane minimums and provide continuity and health insurance in a pooled way, perhaps.
Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. They're not solely acting in the interests of compassion and kindness. We do nobody any favors by pretending there's no economic logic at work.
Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry.
What you call a "barrier to entry", others might call "certification of some base level of quality". Yeah, if you sling spaghetti Javascript, we're not letting you in, or summat. I'm not saying it always does, or even will, work out that way, but it is one option.
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#24This may not be the venue to get good answers but what are the likely costs of unionization in software? How would management respond to organized tech labor? What would be the economic impacts? Not looking for pro- or anti-union sloganeering, but real impacts. The economics of the tech sector would change dramatically with organized labor in computing, and I'm interested in how those changes would manifest.
I wonder how unionized labor would interact with US visas. If you're on an H-1b and your union goes on strike.....do you have to leave the country?
A lot of union agreements have clauses that don't allow workers to strike. It's a bullshit practice and needs to end.
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#25Unions were great at stifling innovation and destroying some of our former industries such as Steel and Automotive - see what's left of former very wealthy Detroit. The classic example is the unions not allowing the Toyota Lean Production system in, as then you would need fewer workers. So in not allowing innovation, the unions were key factors in destroying entire industries which have now been built elsewhere. If t…
It’s funny that you consider China freer than America. It shows that what you mean by freedom isn’t really freedom.
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#26I've often thought there should be a union in tech, similar to the way the directors guild and screen actors guild operate. Not to set maximums on compensation, but to set humane minimums and provide continuity and health insurance in a pooled way, perhaps.
There are unions in tech in some European countries, for example IG Metal in Germany.
I really appreciate the benefits I could enjoy thanks to their work.
Additionally in countries where being an Informatics Engineer is a proper certified title, the college also helps in some negotiations.
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#27Disclaimer: I work for an automaker with union representation. These are solely my own opinions.
Yes, Unions did great things in the past, but I have the feeling that what got you here won't get you there. There's a whole heap of politics in this subject, but besides that, there just aren't a lot of clear cut wins anymore.
I can think of a lot of things that would make things better for somebody, but they are things that would span multiple employers, something that current unions do not really address.
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#28Unions were great at stifling innovation and destroying some of our former industries such as Steel and Automotive - see what's left of former very wealthy Detroit. The classic example is the unions not allowing the Toyota Lean Production system in, as then you would need fewer workers. So in not allowing innovation, the unions were key factors in destroying entire industries which have now been built elsewhere. If t…
On the other hand Toyota Japan has been union since the 50s
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. They're not solely acting in the interests of compassion and kindness. We do nobody any favors by pretending there's no economic logic at work.
Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. What you call a "barrier to entry", others might call "certification of some base level of quality". Yeah, if you sling spaghetti Javascript, we're not letting you in, or summat. I'm not saying it always does, or even will, work out that way, but it is one option.
To the extent that guilds are active in ensuring a base level of quality, you're absolutely correct! Certainly I am not interested in writing - or hiring people who write - truly terrible code.
It's just perhaps possible that not every currently existing and active guild that enforces minimum rates is also ensuring a minimum level of quality. This suggests that, in some times and some places, there can be a gap between what's possible and what's realized.
You're completely right. Guilds can ensure quality!
Re: Unions Did Great Things for the American Working Class
#30I've often thought there should be a union in tech, similar to the way the directors guild and screen actors guild operate. Not to set maximums on compensation, but to set humane minimums and provide continuity and health insurance in a pooled way, perhaps.
Yeah, guilds for other creative industries seem like a better model for any tech unionization.