Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#91

Post by martythemaniak » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #69

andrewtbham wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative doesn't resonate with me. Forward looking statements are speculative, especially when you're innovating new technologies. I personally trust Elon Musk and I am a large investor. I don't expect him to hit all his targets, but I trust him to only raise money on the heels of good news.

Characterizing lying to the SEC and calling a Thai cave rescuer a "pedo" as such is stretching the definition of "forward-looking statement." Musk has always been largely bluster, but now the bluster is hurting people, and his companies as well. He's the biggest liability Tesla has. I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's.

> I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's.

The ~20x ROI since IPO has made many people trust him. Tesla itself is a marvelous success, with no established car maker able to match them yet. It is far more likely that your personal dislike of him is making you see a distorted reality.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#92

Post by Jarbooski » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

wnorris wrote: post #4

The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected. These numbers will allow them another profitable Q4 likely higher than their Q3 numbers. The price cuts are likely to impact margins, but is in line with what Tesla had done with the Model S and X as production efficiencies allow them to reduce manufacturing costs. The reaction looks like a big overreaction as the…

The delivery numbers were below expectations. That's why there was a sell-off.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#93

Post by twblalock » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

andrewtbham wrote: post #7

This actually a price increase because of a loss of the federal tax credit... the title is bogus and should be changed imho. "Moving beyond the success of Q4, we are taking steps to partially absorb the reduction of the federal EV tax credit (which, as of January 1st, dropped from $7,500 to $3,750). Starting today, we are reducing the price of Model S, Model X and Model 3 vehicles in the U.S. by $2,000." http://ir.te…

The price customers pay has increased but the amount of money that Tesla gets for each car has decreased.

That reduces Tesla's revenue for each car so it is a price cut from the point of view of the company and its shareholders.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#94

Post by astrodust » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #45

qroshan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $50B Market Cap, Tesla should be delivering at least $2B Annual profits. It's clear Tesla has run through higher margin demand. There aren't many people in the world who can afford a $50,000 car. Tesla is a niche market car, but priced as a mass market (like iPhones) product. Expect Tesla's sustainable profit to be around $500 Mil per year and it's share price must be cut in half to justify that

Wouldn't they be used as self driving pods in future? 50k is low end for that.

The future as in 2030 or the future as in 2090?

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#95

Post by tomp » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

conception wrote: post #23

wnorris wrote: post #4

The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected. These numbers will allow them another profitable Q4 likely higher than their Q3 numbers. The price cuts are likely to impact margins, but is in line with what Tesla had done with the Model S and X as production efficiencies allow them to reduce manufacturing costs. The reaction looks like a big overreaction as the…

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but Musk had become a liability for Tesla for certain. The once "Tony Stark" has had a serious of Twitter meltdowns and absurd business proposals.

People are buying into Elon’s vision, Tesla is just a vehiclefor realizing this vision. Without Elon, Tesla is astagnating company, and people will buy whatever Elon comes up with next instead.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#96

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

conception wrote: post #23

wnorris wrote: post #4

The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected. These numbers will allow them another profitable Q4 likely higher than their Q3 numbers. The price cuts are likely to impact margins, but is in line with what Tesla had done with the Model S and X as production efficiencies allow them to reduce manufacturing costs. The reaction looks like a big overreaction as the…

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but Musk had become a liability for Tesla for certain. The once "Tony Stark" has had a serious of Twitter meltdowns and absurd business proposals.

Twitter meltdowns are a very Tony Stark thing.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#97

Post by hourislate » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #56

golfer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are skeptical of Tesla because people are skeptical of Elon. His dozens of misleading statements and half-truths over the years have caught up with him.

The pot smoking and twitter insults also dont help.

Perhaps the coke/stripper parties and Insider Trading on Wall ST would have been a better approach. I'm sure the SEC would have found that more appropriate and acceptable.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#98

Post by ivraatiems » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #91

ivraatiems wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Characterizing lying to the SEC and calling a Thai cave rescuer a "pedo" as such is stretching the definition of "forward-looking statement." Musk has always been largely bluster, but now the bluster is hurting people, and his companies as well. He's the biggest liability Tesla has. I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's.

> I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's. The ~20x ROI since IPO has made many people trust him. Tesla itself is a marvelous success, with no established car maker able to match them yet. It is far more likely that your personal dislike of him is making you see a distorted reality.

> It is far more likely that your personal dislike of him is making you see a distorted reality.

Certainly possible. I personally think he's acting like a buffoon and I haven't been shy about stating it.

However, as I told another commenter in this thread, I think the relatively objective argument is that while Musk was necessary initially to get Tesla into existence and functioning, he's now more of a liability than an asset. It's not that he was never valuable or never deserved any trust - rather that he doesn't deserve it now.

Put another way: At what point does the goodwill he's earned expire?

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#99

Post by waisbrot » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #27

jpollock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purchaser factors the tax credit in, so the removal of the credit will have the same effect as an increase in price. The salesman will _definitely_ make the purchaser aware of the credit, in the same way that a mortgage broker makes you aware of the tax benefit on mortgage interest (in the US). That doesn't make them dishonest.

They also tried to include "cost of gas savings" in some of their "line item" website pricing.

TCO seems like an entirely reasonable figure to advertise. It's a hard number to trust, but I'm not sure how that gets fixed except by trying to regulate advertisement in general.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#100

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #51

Derek_MK wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He caused the SEC investigation that probably impacted them enough to miss the targets mentioned in the article. He also has a DOJ investigation in progress against him and Tesla. He is a liability.

Tesla's product is their stock. Musk is a liability iff removing him would cause the stock price to go up. I highly doubt that.

You can’t be serious, that is not how the stock market works. Tesla sells cars, cars are their product. You could make an argument they are some kind of energy company with the powerwalls and solar gear.