Live data from Hacker News

The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

nytimes.com

61–70 of 205 posts

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#61
post #4

I’m surprised by this article. Most people seem to agree that the the metro systems of NYC, Philadelphia, and DC are much better than those of the west coast. LA’s is unusable for most people because there aren’t enough stops. Seattle’s light rail is definitely gaining steam as it adds more stops.

Well one part they don't discuss is ridership numbers increased as the number of in town jobs increased, not because they built out their systems. Plus when factoring in increased rail ridership much can be found in decreased bus usage. In some cities they reduce routes to force the issue. Plus none of these systems brings in enough in fares to cover a majority of their expenses let alone put a dent in their deferred…

  none of these systems brings in
  enough in fares to cover a majority
  of their expenses
Public transit systems often generate a bunch of economic value they can't (or find it isn't politically acceptable to) capture in fares.

For example, if trains to the financial district save each rider 1 hour per day, and the riders are 70% stockbrokers on $150/hour and 30% janitors on $15/hour, a fare of $40/day might maximise revenue but be unpopular with voters as it excludes all the janitors.

Or if a new public transport system means for the same commute time I can travel further, and that means I can buy a family home for $300,000 instead of $450,000 it's going to be difficult for the public transport to capture much of the value created in fares.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#62
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there will be changes. But the subways and light rails will still be required for a certain level of throughput. The New York City subway, for example, carries 60K people per hour per direction on a pair of tracks, while a car lane carries somewhere in the range of 2K per hour per direction. Self driving cars may improve lane utilization, but not by up to 30x. Shoving people into cattle cars hurtling down a…

Shouldn't a bus have similar throughput to a subway though, with no traffic?

A single bus can move about 100-200 people. A single subway train can move about 1000-1500 people, an order of magnitude more.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#64

How about beating Europe or Asia?

> How about beating Europe or Asia? London is the only city in Europe that even comes close to offering what NYC alone does in terms of public transit. Even Berlin, the second largest city in the EU, has pitiful public transit in comparison.

Berlin has 26 subway lines. Some of them (S-Bahn) interconnect with intercity rail, so there are times when you can transfer from a subway to a train on the same platform.

I would really like to know what makes you think Berlin public transit is "pitiful"...

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#65
post #13

Hahaha. I lived in Brooklyn, I lived on Long Island, spent a summer in Seattle, and I live in San Jose now. One can't speak for the entirety of the either coast, but no city in CA comes close to what NYC offers in terms of public transportation. And what NYC offers is a true car-free lifestyle which carries you to work, leisure, and back home via public transport. E-scooters aren't a reliable way to get anywhere yet,…

Disclosure: former Los Angeles native here. Beats? no, the california metro systems are dwarfed by NYC. Beating a hundred year old system? absolutely.

"Ford to City: Drop Dead" in 1975 was an omen for the NYC systems. local, state, and national politicians have all chosen to just ignore NYC metro in the hopes it magically gets better or starts running on time.

Having visited NYC to visit my sister, I can say that what LA lacks in ridership it makes up for in overall investment. New railcars for the NYC system are slated for 2023, whereas Metro LA sees new cars on a yearly basis. The LA high speed project, for whatever political boondoggle it might be, was approved and is in construction. our single tap NFC metro cards are good not just for the LA system, but for most if not all surrounding city systems. I can use an LA TAP card on Santa monica, Culver city, and LA city buses with no penalty.

I also get the equivalent of groupon deals with my tap card. Half price bulgogi or even a free coffee, just for having a metrocard. Its surely no coffin nail for the iron juggernaut of NYC, but its a perk.

Most LA buses and subways all have free Wifi, with the exception of some larger express lines.

LA also has sixteen new transit projects, all green-lit, some of them individually over a billion dollars. This is just the city of los angeles, not the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Metro_Rail#Future

TL;DR: When compared to an entire state, and factoring in current and future investment, the west coast is crushing NYC.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that west coast cities are willing to invest in their systems, not just live off of what past generations built. Here in NYC we've been living off the investments of past generations for a long time, not even maintaining it adequately. It's shameful. I don't know what happened to the can-do attitude that New Yorkers were once famous for.

> Here in NYC we've been living off the investments of past generations for a long time, not even maintaining it adequately. That's a recent development. The MTA hit its peak of reliability and performance about a decade ago. Since 2010, which coincidentally is the exact time that Cuomo took office, things have plummeted.

It actually was a coincidence, as the practices leading inevitably to the current situation have been going on for decades.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20-40 years into the future (if not delayed) that seems to be unreasonably long. In germany, both the city I am studying at and the city I was born are undertaking big changes in their transportation infrastructure, and both don't take that long. In munich, building just started and is expected to last unit 2026 [1]. And we always complain that it's taking too long to plan and build! 40 years seems to be crazy! You…

Let's not get too smug with things like Stuttgart 21, Transrapid München, or cities like Aachen getting rid of their tram network (and regretting it now AFAIK). And having a public that values and prioritises mass transport is not a given. Admittedly, I'm a bit torn on this. Since infrastructure is so important to the liveability and growth of a city, and any sort of long-term thinking is a good thing. But predicting…

I agree, i think I was more confused. I thought he meant the time to realize the projects, not the complete cycle from estimating whether it's doable to financing to building.

There are also project on hold for 30 years in munich.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that west coast cities are willing to invest in their systems, not just live off of what past generations built. Here in NYC we've been living off the investments of past generations for a long time, not even maintaining it adequately. It's shameful. I don't know what happened to the can-do attitude that New Yorkers were once famous for.

> Here in NYC we've been living off the investments of past generations for a long time, not even maintaining it adequately. That's a recent development. The MTA hit its peak of reliability and performance about a decade ago. Since 2010, which coincidentally is the exact time that Cuomo took office, things have plummeted.

The Cuomo family are pieces of shit, always were. I can't believe NY has made the same mistake twice! Absolute corrupt pieces of shit.

Americans need to fix this political mess and start electing smart people who aren't in someone else's pocket. The corruption in NY and the whole east coast is rampant! And it's bad everywhere mind you, but NY absolutely is the epicenter of it.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle actually has extremely high transit ridership and walk commmute share, which is pretty impressive considering how the transit system is mostly buses right now. And by 2024, major centers in the region will be connected by rail transit that is faster than road travel. Anecdotally, I live pretty well without a car here; I use Uber and Lyft when transit don't work out, and if I want to hike usually one of my fri…

I think there is an objective measure here. Just plot a 30-minute transit radius around the centers of various cities and you'll get a sense of the transit size of the city vs. covered population. Some cities are notoriously "small," like SF, despite it being on some best-to-live-without-car lists. You can't go very far before practically needing a car: so what if you can get there by transit if it takes 1-2 hours an…

Boston and San Francisco have realitively equivalent population densities and population. So this makes a very good comparison of the two regions.

For example my 4.5 mi commute in sf takes around 25 min. That’s similar to what I remember from Harvard square to Boylston street which is an equivalent distance.

Re: The West Coast is beating the East Coast on transportation?

#70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in both Seattle and DC... this is wrong, at least comparing those two. DC managed to build a new line out to Dulles with others in the works, Seattle's light rail is a joke if you're trying to use it for more than a straight line through the city. A common misconception people have about the DC metro is that it belongs to DC, but the abbreviation WMATA has nothing to do with DC for a reason. Maryland, Vi…

Boston supposedly has the north/south station rail connector project under way again. It's only been half a century. I'll believe it when I see it. Even then I won't ride on it for a few years in case the ceiling falls down.

"underway" is a generous way to describe it. There's been no funding allocated, and there's no plans to allocate funding at the moment. There are studies underway, but there have been studies done dozens of times over decades.

Although there does seem to be some political support for getting it done this time.

Post reply on HN