Kuleshov effect • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuleshov effect

#21

Post by Fishysoup » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

Steve Bannon is - inspired, I guess? by this method and he and others at Breitbart build on it to trick people into forming associations between things that aren't really there. "The opposition with Jordan Klepper" has an excellent bit on it, where one of the correspondents goes undercover at a "citizen journalism" workshop taught by one of the Breitbart editors. The relevant bit is here, on the second clip: The https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhniP-mAChI&t=1m20s

And here's the first clip, just for completeness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkgWXIjBEIU

Re: Kuleshov effect

#22

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #9

PavlikPaja wrote: post #5

I wonder how is the lack of this effect connected to autism.

I wonder about this as well. That example on Wikipedia had no effect on me. On the other hand could it be the advertising industry using it too much and some people getting "anesthetized" to it? I don't think it's autism for me because generally I'm hyper aware of people's emotions.

[deleted]

Re: Kuleshov effect

#23

Post by mcbits » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

lowercased wrote: post #19

mysterypie wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Monty Python scene of two guards who see a distant hazy image of a knight charging the castle, but do nothing because the image is so distant and hazy, but are surprised when the knight finally arrives and kills one of them] I'm intrigued that you used that particular scene as an example. I've watched a lot of Monty Python and I've seen this movie at least a couple times, but that scene makes no sense to me. I don…

> I don't get how it's supposed to be funny and why it's even there. It is possible to explain it? I think you just covered about 70% of monty python for me. I think much of it falls under "if I have to explain to you, you won't get it". FWIW, I get (and like) a lot of british humour, but really not much of MP.

I think the humor comes from the shock and incongruity of a "battle" where he's brutally murdering innocent civilians and clueless guards for no reason. He probably could have just sauntered past them all. It's called the WTFLOL Effect (no Wikipedia entry yet).

Re: Kuleshov effect

#24

Post by nzb » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #9

PavlikPaja wrote: post #5

I wonder how is the lack of this effect connected to autism.

I wonder about this as well. That example on Wikipedia had no effect on me. On the other hand could it be the advertising industry using it too much and some people getting "anesthetized" to it? I don't think it's autism for me because generally I'm hyper aware of people's emotions.

I don't have autism (or at least I'm not diagnosed) and none of the faces evoked any effect on me. But maybe it is because I'm fixated on the faces and not on the bigger picture.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#25

Post by torben-friis » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

mysterypie wrote: post #16

marius_k wrote: post #6

This scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail came back to my mind: https://youtu.be/DPXG4pdPj4w?t=18

> [Monty Python scene of two guards who see a distant hazy image of a knight charging the castle, but do nothing because the image is so distant and hazy, but are surprised when the knight finally arrives and kills one of them] I'm intrigued that you used that particular scene as an example. I've watched a lot of Monty Python and I've seen this movie at least a couple times, but that scene makes no sense to me. I don…

For me the humor lies in the buildup. The music gives you the feeling that a fight is about to develop as soon as he gets closer. Pretty much the only thing you wouldn't expect to happen is for them to be caught off guard.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#26

Post by daodedickinson » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

Fishysoup wrote: post #21

Steve Bannon is - inspired, I guess? by this method and he and others at Breitbart build on it to trick people into forming associations between things that aren't really there. "The opposition with Jordan Klepper" has an excellent bit on it, where one of the correspondents goes undercover at a "citizen journalism" workshop taught by one of the Breitbart editors. The relevant bit is here, on the second clip: The http…

The Soviets invented it, the Chinese mastered it, and Brietbart has never been anything but completely transparent in articulating his strategy as taking Saul Alinky's tactics and applying them toward better ends.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#27

Post by porpoisely » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

Fishysoup wrote: post #21

Steve Bannon is - inspired, I guess? by this method and he and others at Breitbart build on it to trick people into forming associations between things that aren't really there. "The opposition with Jordan Klepper" has an excellent bit on it, where one of the correspondents goes undercover at a "citizen journalism" workshop taught by one of the Breitbart editors. The relevant bit is here, on the second clip: The http…

What does Bannon have to do with the article or the effect?

It's a 100 year old discovery that's been used by everyone in the media for decades. It's why films have editors. It's why news companies edit their interviews. The article even has a hitchcock example.

"In the first version of the example, Hitchcock is squinting, and the audience sees footage of a woman with a baby. The screen then returns to Hitchcock's face, now smiling. In effect, he is a kind old man. In the second example, the woman and baby are replaced with a woman in a bikini, Hitchcock explains: "What is he now? He's a dirty old man.""

Bannon does it, but so does everyone in the media.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#28

Post by dkural » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

porpoisely wrote: post #27

Fishysoup wrote: post #21

Steve Bannon is - inspired, I guess? by this method and he and others at Breitbart build on it to trick people into forming associations between things that aren't really there. "The opposition with Jordan Klepper" has an excellent bit on it, where one of the correspondents goes undercover at a "citizen journalism" workshop taught by one of the Breitbart editors. The relevant bit is here, on the second clip: The http…

What does Bannon have to do with the article or the effect? It's a 100 year old discovery that's been used by everyone in the media for decades. It's why films have editors. It's why news companies edit their interviews. The article even has a hitchcock example. "In the first version of the example, Hitchcock is squinting, and the audience sees footage of a woman with a baby. The screen then returns to Hitchcock's fa…

Can you substantiate your claim, for instance, when did NYTimes use this effect to create an association in support of false facts? It seems that Breitbart has a much higher rate of misleading or outright false information compared to WSJ, NYTimes, etc. and much more supportive of using various strategies to trick its readers into believing falsehoods.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#29

Post by Scriptor » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #10

zwkrt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entirety of video advertising utilizes this effect. A shot of carpet cleaner is less effective than that same shot juxtaposed with a happy couple enjoying dinner in a clean home. The naive advertising of Kermit the Frog (Ocean Breeze soap will get you clean!) Is rarely as effective as showing successfully happy people, even if they aren't using the product! Really the Kuleshov effect is so pervasive in visual med…

Which isn't to take away from Kuleshov at all, cinema was a very new medium back then and this effect wasn't immediately obvious. Furthermore we might expect that people who grew up with cinema and video everywhere might be sophisticated enough not to be subject to the effect, but the recent replications of the effect and it's continued efficacy in advertising show that we still are.

I wish I could take a class on early film history. It's fascinating to see how people figured out all these techniques, tricks, rules, and conventions in the first few decades of movie-making. It's simply incredible how quickly it developed as an art form so quickly.

Re: Kuleshov effect

#30

Post by _uhtu » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

porpoisely wrote: post #27

Fishysoup wrote: post #21

Steve Bannon is - inspired, I guess? by this method and he and others at Breitbart build on it to trick people into forming associations between things that aren't really there. "The opposition with Jordan Klepper" has an excellent bit on it, where one of the correspondents goes undercover at a "citizen journalism" workshop taught by one of the Breitbart editors. The relevant bit is here, on the second clip: The http…

What does Bannon have to do with the article or the effect? It's a 100 year old discovery that's been used by everyone in the media for decades. It's why films have editors. It's why news companies edit their interviews. The article even has a hitchcock example. "In the first version of the example, Hitchcock is squinting, and the audience sees footage of a woman with a baby. The screen then returns to Hitchcock's fa…

The article describes a psychological technique, and the comment describes how a person who is extremely relevant to modern politics uses that technique.

I feel the comment is exactly what comments are for, adding further context around an article with a different perspective. Can you explain why you think he shouldn't have made this comment, outside of "Bannon is not the only person who does this, you can't make this comment unless you mention every other form of media that does."