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Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

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Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#151
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your strong ties to the Bay Area suggest that you are probably involved in tech. Which is no doubt centred around the Bay Area, and pays less outside of the Bay Area no matter who you are. But what if all you knew was farming? Do you think you'd see a huge pay bump by moving your farm to the Bay Area (or any other major metropolis)? If I inherited a bunch of debt-free land and equipment from my dad rather than a bun…

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but my comment wasn't really about agriculture specifically. What I meant was that you are able to make more in the Bay Area doing tech than doing tech in points outside of the Bay Area because of it being the centre of tech. Farmers are able to make more in rural areas than they would doing farming in the city because rural areas are the centre of agriculture. Farmers would not make more mone…

ah, yes, that is completely true; some products are better produced in some areas than in other areas.

My argument is generalizing this to "if you fix things or otherwise provide services, you are better off fixing things or otherwise providing services to wealthy people than doing the same for people who are less wealthy" (edit: you can substitute "productive" for "wealthy" here, if you want to change 'are better off' to 'add more productivity to the system' in the previous sentence. Or you can leave it as-is, either way works, really.)

Which seems to me to follow, because my tech job involves a whole lot of "service" type fixing things for people. I'm a SysAdmin, and let me tell you, getting woken up in the middle of the night for a billion dollar product is way more renumerative (and better in other ways, too) than getting woken up in the middle of the night for a million dollar product.

My argument is that what I experience as a sysadmin would probably be pretty similar if I fixed cars instead; Fixing cars for wealthy people is likely to be a lot more renumerative than doing the same for people who aren't wealthy, and regardless of the direction of causality, the correlation between degrees and money is very strong; that's where I was going with my original point that as a dude without a degree who fixes things and helps people, I'm better off around educated people than otherwise.

Of course, you would be totally right to come back with other location based jobs; like if I were a mechanic, the path to income maximization would probably be to upgrade my skills to large diesel, and then move near some oil fields or something; jobs that are dependent on location are totally a thing. But most jobs depend on the people you are around more than any other location.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#152
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more a question of the number of new comers, and their desire to integrate into the community versus their desire to change it to be like their place of origin. How will a non Christian “integrate” into rural America and “share their values”, by converting to Christianity? How will either a gay couple or an interracial couple “integrate” where some Christians think their “lifestyle” is a sin? https://www…

As far as your article that says just the opposite of what you intended. I read the article, and realize it's not entirely pro-immigrant. I meant what I said --- that I was surprised by how welcoming some of the town was. I was less surprised that there was also resistance. It's also worth noting that in the continuation of that quote, the speaker claims that he's not against immigrants in general, just against those…

The only thing that upsets me is if they’re coming, they need to blend. I don’t need ‘barrios.’ I don’t need these certain sectors where everything is still the way it was where they came from. If you’re going to meld, then meld.”

How are they “creating barrios”? By speaking their native toungue and maybe listening to Hispanic music? Would the city be happier if they all spoke English to each other and they listened to Taylor Swift and Tim McGraw?

I'm frequently surprised by how fully integrated and accepted by the community the second and subsequent generations are.

There are different levels of acceptance.

- serving people in a place of business.

- employment

- socially

- living in the same neighborhood

- going to the same church

- dating.

Statistically, most Black people live in a majority Black neighborhoods. Because of redlining, steering, economics, and just comfort.

Because we live in an overwhelmingly White area, if my (step)son is going to date anyone from school, more than likely they are going to be white. Parents haven’t had any problems with it but is that because he has an acceptable pedigree and he grew up in the burbs, doesn’t “talk Black”, and we live in “good neighborhood”? How would they feel if he were the same person, doing well in school but lived on the other side of the tracks? Also, both my wife and I know how to “code switch”.

If you are working on the same food drive or Habitat-for-Humanity house, a majority of Christians are willing to (at least temporarily) overlook the error of your religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

It takes an effort to just bring Christian churches of multiple races to come together. When you are constantly being brainwashed into believing that Muslims are trying to spread Sharia law and that there are already some cities in the US under Sharia law, it’s hard to shake those beliefs.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#153
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as your article that says just the opposite of what you intended. I read the article, and realize it's not entirely pro-immigrant. I meant what I said --- that I was surprised by how welcoming some of the town was. I was less surprised that there was also resistance. It's also worth noting that in the continuation of that quote, the speaker claims that he's not against immigrants in general, just against those…

The only thing that upsets me is if they’re coming, they need to blend. I don’t need ‘barrios.’ I don’t need these certain sectors where everything is still the way it was where they came from. If you’re going to meld, then meld.” How are they “creating barrios”? By speaking their native toungue and maybe listening to Hispanic music? Would the city be happier if they all spoke English to each other and they listened…

Fuck off loser stop making things about race

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#154
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many points. I will address them and this is just my 2c: 1. I think there has to be local food and food security in the form of local urban Ag even for big cities. Why? 2. Because. Supply chain is convoluted. We are entering a whole diff timeline when fossil fuel based Ag is just not going to be sustainable. 3. We are losing habitat and degrading environment by compartmentalising Ag. Even in rural Ag areas, watertabl…

Hey, so first, I might be reading your post wrong, but... it seems like you might want to check out intentional communities; like I think visiting one might be what you are looking for in that sustainable agricultural lifestyle you want? I just think it's really important to know that there are other people in the world like you, that you fit in somewhere; even if you don't end up living in that place, I personally f…

Thank you!! I am not enamoured with that kind of lifestyle. I love living in the Bay Area and especially Silicon Valley..love the weather here. I like sci fi and going to opera in the city ..I like hiking and still be able to slink back into my cave or just spend time needing out on soil and gardening by myself. Where else can we find a place like Silicon Valley..the hype is so spot on. That’s why I fret when it keeps getting close to not so positive changes. I love that electric feeling and the new ideas buzzing around here. Of course, family too.

There is also a lot of hostility to technology in Ag. Even amongst the young people(and I am not young myself). I like robotics and really do believe we can check out Mars in our lifetimes. I make non PC jokes and can be embarrassing company for people who are into this with a deep abiding purpose. Maybe it’s my delusion but it’s too late for me to give that up.

I also find that the farming community is allergic to money. I don’t know why. I like money. If it’s not making money to support the business, it’s a hobby. The younger generation is always looking for all forms of justice and resisting something or other. I am an immigrant myself and I am VERY grateful to be here in the United States. And Bay Area. I love it here and can’t get myself worked up too much. Because I have seen worse. No matter how bad things gets here, it’s still better here than most other parts of the world and I appreciate that.

I only end up irritating them when I try to share my dreams and visions. I have been told that I don’t have a farmer’s work ethic because I want robots to do the work instead of ‘dirt under my nails’ or because I think food must be at least 4x more expensive given the manual work that goes into organic speciality foods. I also think standing in a farmers market and hawking tomatoes for $2/lb is an utter waste of my time. I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t jump into farming and sell the house to buy a farm!! I just realized after all these years that I don’t fit in..just like I don’t fit in as the tech worker in Silicon Valley...and I am relieved. Now..I can look for something else but not before I put it to sleep after giving it a final shot for the next 12 more months.

I would be happy even if I can make a prototype or even a low hanging fruit of a white paper of a sustainable full automation of small acreages. It will be worth the 5+ years I tried farming. To me, anyways.

But if there a tech friendly ecological minded natural farming community, I might fit in! That the community you mentioned is into automation makes me want to look them up and perhaps I can hope for a west coast chapter? I appreciate your response!

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#155

... They are proud of their small-town values .... And this part of the issue. I come from a small town. The “values” of small towns are racist, homophopic, and nationalistic. I’ve known many people who moved away, started dating someone of another race and then come back home with their significant other and feel completely out of place - not because of family, but because of the city. I’ve also had gay relatives wh…

>People don’t understand how much of an anachronism small town America is. The brain drain is real, young people who are capable can’t wait to move as soon as possible to experience more of the world.

Yeah, I'm one of those people, and after I moved I found out that I don't enjoy city life at all. The entire reason I want to go into tech is so I can get a remote job and go back.

Higher population density doesn't mean much for the city I live in now - there's hardly anything to do that I'm interested in, and urbanites are as closed-minded as their caricatures of everyone else. (Not having Netflix isn't as much of a problem as not being a socialist, or not being down with a nationwide gun ban or whatever, but it's in the same ballpark.) I had to abandon all my hobbies when I moved, for lack of space and proximity to the communities. And the threat of physical violence is much higher here - I've learned from experience that I can't go outside after dark.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has a good railway system that connects many (most? all?) small villages with nearby towns with nearby cities. More importantly, its rural population density is an order of magnitude greater than the US, at 237/km^2 vs 35/km^2 (source: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/rural-population-percen... , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-... ). The biggest misconception that I’ve found m…

IMHO average population density is an almost meaningless number, because population density is not even close to a distribution where the mean is informative. I'm not sure whether it's the case in the US, but it's perfectly possible to have a tiny average population density and yet areas where small and medium towns are not too far apart from each other. You don't have to have rail service connection a tiny town in A…

National population density in the US is misleading. Population density drops off sharply between the Rockies and somewhere around Iowa. East Coast states that we think of as mostly rural, like Virginia and Pennsylvania, have population densities that are squarely within the European range: 110 people/sq km in Pennyslvania vs. 106 in Hungary; 81 in Virginia vs. 82 in Romania. On the other hand, Utah (14) is less dense than Saudi Arabia (16) - both places are mostly desert.

Arkansas has a population density of 22 people/sq km, close to Sweden - but Arkansas is probably much less urbanized.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#157

well, germany is quite spread out and has lots of tech in smaller towns. It's not always perfect and we are also struggeling with some things, but I think a few approaches can be emulated. First, I think it's important that the small town is not on it's own, but in a close neighborhood of other smaller towns with which it's cooperating a lot. For a serious tech economy, even small towns need a working ecosystem (and…

Of the top of my head I can't remember a single big online thing targeting consumers that Germany does. The US has google, facebook, twitter etc, so rather than say Germany has figured out how to do tech in a small town, I would rather think it is accurate for Germany not to have figured out the tech at all. I know they make cars with electronics in them, but honestly I haven't seen a car with electronics that fundam…

well, german tech is not really into the business of targeting consumers. You can critizise it, but you can't deny that germany has a large high-tech industry. I was making the observation that the tech industry in germany is quite spread out and that the solutions here could be applicable to rural america.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not "all" small towns are racist. Saying so is just ignorant. I also think of all the values small towns have these aren't the forefront.

So which small rural town do you know of that is welcoming to non native Americans, minorities, or non straight people?

I can think of a few rural cities in Maryland, but I'm not going to list every city I've lived and frequent to some stranger on the internet to prove a point.

Blanket statement that all of anything usually is wrong.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#159
post #155

... They are proud of their small-town values .... And this part of the issue. I come from a small town. The “values” of small towns are racist, homophopic, and nationalistic. I’ve known many people who moved away, started dating someone of another race and then come back home with their significant other and feel completely out of place - not because of family, but because of the city. I’ve also had gay relatives wh…

>People don’t understand how much of an anachronism small town America is. The brain drain is real, young people who are capable can’t wait to move as soon as possible to experience more of the world. Yeah, I'm one of those people, and after I moved I found out that I don't enjoy city life at all. The entire reason I want to go into tech is so I can get a remote job and go back. Higher population density doesn't mean…

Living in the burbs has a lot of the advantages of both the opportunities of a major city and the space and convenience of a small town. I live in the burbs and it’s very conservative - pro gun, religious, pro-life, pro-business, but not “build a wall”, “anti-immigration”, etc - ie they are more Bush conservatives than southern Confederate Flag waving conservatives.

It’s slso very safe and I wouldn’t be worried about getting robbed at night. I would be more worried about the police being called on me if I’m jogging at night for “looking suspicious” as a minority.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#160
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, so first, I might be reading your post wrong, but... it seems like you might want to check out intentional communities; like I think visiting one might be what you are looking for in that sustainable agricultural lifestyle you want? I just think it's really important to know that there are other people in the world like you, that you fit in somewhere; even if you don't end up living in that place, I personally f…

Thank you!! I am not enamoured with that kind of lifestyle. I love living in the Bay Area and especially Silicon Valley..love the weather here. I like sci fi and going to opera in the city ..I like hiking and still be able to slink back into my cave or just spend time needing out on soil and gardening by myself. Where else can we find a place like Silicon Valley..the hype is so spot on. That’s why I fret when it keep…

> There is also a lot of hostility to technology in Ag.

There is? As a farmer myself, I find that agriculture runs at the forefront of technology. It is why I love agriculture as we get to play with the cool tech before the masses do.

There are pockets of people who are more interested in a homesteading lifestyle than farming, but any serious commercial operation will jump over any advantageous tech available to them. Of course, not all tech is advantageous; there has to be a compelling business case more than "that is really neat" to justify adoption.

> I also find that the farming community is allergic to money. I don’t know why.

It is a high risk, high reward business. I'm not sure that is the same as being allergic to money.

> I have been told that I don’t have a farmer’s work ethic because I want robots to do the work instead of ‘dirt under my nails’ or because I think food must be at least 4x more expensive given the manual work that goes into organic speciality foods. I also think standing in a farmers market and hawking tomatoes for $2/lb is an utter waste of my time.

Seems like you got caught in one of those homesteading pockets mentioned before. This is not how most farm businesses operate. Farming benefits from scale. Your tomatoes should be sold to a major buyer by the truckload if you're serious about farming and not just enjoying the lifestyle.

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