Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside • Hacker News Board

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#101

Post by jnellis » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

FlyMoreRockets wrote: post #79

jnellis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conclusion that the hole was intended is not likely. The hole has its own drift mark, you can still get a drift mark after punching through your piece. There are 3 drift marks, 3 other bit taps, 2 or 3 more bit taps further back where the panel jig-jogs (this was what they were shooting for in the first place, this dead space where the bit could punch through safely.) Most people that drill a lot of holes in metal ha…

> The most disturbing evidence here is the drift mark before the hole among the other bit tap marks. It implies the person drilling it did not have mental focus. It is possible the drilling was done well away from line of sight, say somebody drilling near the top of the capsule while standing on the acceleration couch after the stack was erected. Tough to control a drill when your arms are near full extension.

That's very possible but it seems that this was just being used as a table to drill upon and not just once but at least 8-11 times. Why would one strain to reach, line of sight or not, to use this as a table when surely some other affordance is closer.

How about two guys, one on the others shoulders, they get up there, find they need to drill a bunch of holes into the component they're trying to install. Now it's more trouble to come down and do it right. "Just hurry up, you're heavy!"

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#102

Post by maxander » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #95

colordrops wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISS crew have more tasks than time, and typically undersleep.

Do you know this for a fact? Where can I learn more about how they occupy their time?

I recommend the ISS blog: https://blogs.nasa.gov/spacestation/

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#103

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #26

> they wasted no time plugging the hole with epoxy and gauze. [from article] >Sealed with epoxy and resin [from photo caption] I'm kindof confused, was it resin-impregnated gauze? I'm also curious: If the hole was in a more-critical location, like one of the station's modules, would that be the repair process? Or would they be doing welding in space?

[deleted]

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#104

Post by ggm » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

What's the agregate pressure loss in the ISS which is just taken as "meh" and ignored? Is there one? I could imagine a leak being known from input/output maths but once you get to the error digits there are a number of sources of input and output (outgassing of materials? Incidental losses with inefficient vacuum pumps emptying Chambers) which would mean it wasn't clear there was a leak. I guess the Dynamics of a leak stand it pretty Stark: constant unremitting loss. Except of course if it's in a flexing part. Or a function of thermal change in orbit or a-periodic for some reason...

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#105

Post by geerlingguy » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 3:56 AM UTC

c22 wrote: post #100

Waterluvian wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A stud once every 16 inches? I like those odds!

Broken drywall sucks too. Especially after it's been sitting there half-repaired for 6 months and your spouse keeps nagging you about it.

Or you repair the hole and spackle/mud it, but put off painting it for 3+ years :)

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#106

Post by vertline3 » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

I do this mistake sometimes, I am off in my measuring, and have to drill a hole beside the one I drilled. I know it's likely not the cause, but if I built a shuttle, maybe it would have holes like this too. :/

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#107

Post by wallace_f » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #98

Waterluvian wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a smart person but when learning stuff I often feel really dumb because I ask what should be really obvious questions. It's some weird mix of ignorance and fear of doing it wrong in front of the boss. "So fasten x to y with a screw." "Do I drill through and into the workbench too?" "Why would you do that?!" (In my mind) well I saw someone else fastening a work piece to the bench temporarily like that and why woul…

If you don't know, it is not clear that it makes zero sense. I'm often on each side of this, and what it really drives home is that most people do not actually consider most of the ways in which something can be done differently. :)

Yea. Brains work differently. Some optimize for least-wrong; others curiously search for most-right or why is it right?

Learning how to suffer fools and survive foolish aggresses is a real thing in some jobs, and it will quickly make you abandon curiosity.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#108

Post by garmaine » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #12

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #7

So I was teaching a new guy on building some of the interior work on sailboats. I showed him how to drill a couple of holes through the fiberglass flange to mount something-or-other. Several hours later my boss asks me why there's two small holes in the hull. Well, I didn't specifically tell him not to drill through the flange, the cm of space, and through the whole hull.

I'm a smart person but when learning stuff I often feel really dumb because I ask what should be really obvious questions. It's some weird mix of ignorance and fear of doing it wrong in front of the boss. "So fasten x to y with a screw." "Do I drill through and into the workbench too?" "Why would you do that?!" (In my mind) well I saw someone else fastening a work piece to the bench temporarily like that and why woul…

> My logic centre isn't working fast at all.

Your logic centre was working plenty fast enough. It's just hard for someone who already knows to procedure to appreciate just how open-ended the possible space of procedures is. It seems obvious to them, but only because their mental filters are already blocking out other possible solutions.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#109

Post by bb611 » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

jimhefferon wrote: post #21

In the museum on Nantuckut there is a display devoted to the USS Essex , a whaling ship (it is the ship that the whale rams, I think). One incindent that made an impression on me was a sailor, who was driven insane by boredom, and sabotaged the ship, just for something to happen. I understand space to be unbelivably boring.

USS is only applied to US Navy ships in active service, so the ships name is just the Essex. An interesting parallel for sure.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#110

Post by sitkack » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #88

stevage wrote: post #48

Anyone have any good theories as to how this could have happened? Is it really plausible that it was "accidentally" drilled during manufacture, and not detected? I mean, surely there must be some kind of testing step where they test that the craft is completely airtight. And no one is going to be drilling anything after that point.

Well, it had been sealed with glue. So probably someone really did accidentally drill in the wrong place, sealed the hole with glue, and hoped nobody would notice. But then eventually thermal cycling borked the seal.

Should have used jbweld, it fixes everything.