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Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

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Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#41

Post by Waterluvian »

manyxcxi wrote: post #28
vidanay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends if it was accompanied by insults and derision (bad) or patience and understanding that it is a learning opportunity and mistakes need to be rectified (note I didn't say paid for)

This is the approach I (try, and try and try and try) to take with my kids (6,4,2). I repeatedly tell them I will never be mad at them for mistakes, but they have to help fix them- whatever that may be. I also tell them I will get mad if they do it on purpose and/or I’ve instructed them not to do said thing that caused whatever issue. I try very hard to be explicit with instruction. Saying “be careful” doesn’t mean a…

This is a treasure trove of wisdom. Thank you for sharing. The challenge I have is my hard wiring for anger with pain. I'm a goofy dad but when my toddler swings his skull full speed into my jaw, a spark ignites something in me and my civilized brain can muster one thing: put him down, go to the garage, and kick a garbage can. Otherwise I have this uncorked rage and I feel scared with it.

I'm not proud of it but I acknowledge that it's in my wiring.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#42

Post by overlordalex »

userbinator wrote: post #30
CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #26

> they wasted no time plugging the hole with epoxy and gauze. [from article] >Sealed with epoxy and resin [from photo caption] I'm kindof confused, was it resin-impregnated gauze? I'm also curious: If the hole was in a more-critical location, like one of the station's modules, would that be the repair process? Or would they be doing welding in space?

It's a small hole that doesn't really compromise structural integrity, and it doesn't have to hold that much pressure --- remember that sea-level atmospheric pressure is <15psia, and in the vacuum of space it's effectively 0, so the difference is <15psi.

This brings to mind a great Futurama scene:

> Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand? > Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#43

Post by skookumchuck »

jimnotgym wrote: post #2

Do you ever find yourself in the position whereyou are holding a brand new drill (for instance) in your hand, and you are just desperate to try it on something . I am the same with a new knife, something is going to get cut. Maybe this happened? "I wonder how well this drills aluminium, OMG it went right through"...pretend nothing happened. It is a bit like developers with a new js framework I suppose.

> pretend nothing happened

Sure, but in the hull of the spacecraft that's leaking my air away, I'd still put a wad a chewing gum in the hole to patch it.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#44

Post by strken »

Waterluvian wrote: post #19
strken wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad made me buy him some hole filling putty with my pocket money after I did this to his workbench at an age where I really should have known better. Apparently you're meant to clamp an offcut between the piece you're drilling into and the bench.

In retrospect do you think your dad's approach was an effective teaching method? I'm slowly trying to figure out what kind of disciplinarian I'm going to be with my boys.

It was more effective than just grounding would have been, since it had a certain fairness to it. He also helped me apply the putty, and gave half my pocket money back after it was fixed "because the jar was still half full", which is kind of funny in retrospect.

It's probably easier to create teaching moments when your kid does something negligent or thoughtless, rather than downright malicious.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#45

Post by antongribok »

jimhefferon wrote: post #21

In the museum on Nantuckut there is a display devoted to the USS Essex , a whaling ship (it is the ship that the whale rams, I think). One incindent that made an impression on me was a sailor, who was driven insane by boredom, and sabotaged the ship, just for something to happen. I understand space to be unbelivably boring.

My boss's classmate from college went up to the ISS for the first time a couple of years ago. They graduated about 25 years ago and his classmate worked nonstop for 25 years to get to go to space.

My understanding is once there, you work 16 hour days non-stop.

I think most people would describe being on the ISS as anything else but "boring".

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#46

Post by paulie_a »

Waterluvian wrote: post #19
strken wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad made me buy him some hole filling putty with my pocket money after I did this to his workbench at an age where I really should have known better. Apparently you're meant to clamp an offcut between the piece you're drilling into and the bench.

In retrospect do you think your dad's approach was an effective teaching method? I'm slowly trying to figure out what kind of disciplinarian I'm going to be with my boys.

Completely unrelated but since you are asking about teaching methods. My father did this regarding food. If eventually it turns out my sister and me didn't like a particular thing recipes were adjusted.

But to make us kids at least try, if we didn't finish our meals or we're being picky. He would put the plate on the counter and make us stand there until we finished. It was effective. It wasn't cruel, it was simply a method of making sure I finished my meal and tried new things. A solid balance in my opinion.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#47

Post by [deleted] »

Waterluvian wrote: post #41
manyxcxi wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the approach I (try, and try and try and try) to take with my kids (6,4,2). I repeatedly tell them I will never be mad at them for mistakes, but they have to help fix them- whatever that may be. I also tell them I will get mad if they do it on purpose and/or I’ve instructed them not to do said thing that caused whatever issue. I try very hard to be explicit with instruction. Saying “be careful” doesn’t mean a…

This is a treasure trove of wisdom. Thank you for sharing. The challenge I have is my hard wiring for anger with pain. I'm a goofy dad but when my toddler swings his skull full speed into my jaw, a spark ignites something in me and my civilized brain can muster one thing: put him down, go to the garage, and kick a garbage can. Otherwise I have this uncorked rage and I feel scared with it. I'm not proud of it but I ac…

[deleted]

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#48

Post by stevage »

Anyone have any good theories as to how this could have happened? Is it really plausible that it was "accidentally" drilled during manufacture, and not detected?

I mean, surely there must be some kind of testing step where they test that the craft is completely airtight. And no one is going to be drilling anything after that point.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#49

Post by ars »

stevage wrote: post #48

Anyone have any good theories as to how this could have happened? Is it really plausible that it was "accidentally" drilled during manufacture, and not detected? I mean, surely there must be some kind of testing step where they test that the craft is completely airtight. And no one is going to be drilling anything after that point.

Don't forget it was sealed, and the seal failed. So it was initially air tight.

To me that excludes sabotage, and instead points of error that someone tried to cover up. It also points to someone low-level/unskilled since they did a bad job of sealing it.

Re: Russian Cosmonauts Say That the Hole in the Soyuz Was Drilled from the Inside

#50

Post by ars »

gesman wrote: post #10
AYBABTME wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems more likely to me that some situation like "stacked panels, top panel is drilled thru and fabricator didn't notice" followed by someone else assembling it and thinking "this hole might be here for a reason".

1. Scratch marks around the hole means that panel was likely not obstructed by anything [but possibly soft material]. Stacked panels is unlikely. 2. Drill was hand-held - again due to the marks where drill bit was trying to find it's way around. 3. No any markings from pen/pencil or anything that would show that any kind of measurements were done beforehand. Which means that the hole was not part of any specific fixt…

> Which strengthens hypothesis that the purpose of the hole was the hole itself.

Then why did they seal it with glue (that later failed)?

We have established the hole was made very badly, so you can not also say the person making it knew exactly the right kind and amount of glue that would fail at just the right time.

This seems like an accident to me, and someone tried to cover it up.

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