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Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

nytimes.com

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Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#101

Post by thaumaturgy »

I was one part of a group of people who worked hard for several years to try to nurture a growing a tech scene in a rural area not far from Sacramento. I stepped away from that almost two years ago and my current thinking is it can't be done, not just because we largely failed at it but because there are a number of other towns trying to do the same and they aren't getting traction either.

I wonder if a healthy tech economy isn't more of an emergent behavior, and it tends to emerge in cities because there are more people, more resources, and more opportunities all mixing together.

You need good communications infrastructure, not just fiber but cellular too. If all you have available is satellite or (gulp) DSL, it's really painful to get work done. But that requires an enormous financial investment, especially in rural areas where RoI-per-mile is mostly negative.

Often the rural areas already have a culture there, and that culture doesn't necessarily want to get along with tech. Here, cellular providers can't deploy new towers because too many people are convinced that they'll get cancer, including some members of city council. Rural areas will tend to be mostly populated by people who either moved to get away from the city, or have never experienced life in a city. For those people, there's very little about a strong tech scene that sounds marketably attractive.

That also means that the talent just isn't there. And talent isn't there in part because opportunity isn't there. And opportunity isn't there because talent and infrastructure aren't there.

Nobody wants to just pump half a billion dollars or more into a small town just to see what shakes out, and if you did, you'd probably only end up ruining everything that made it an attractive enough small town to experiment with in the first place.

This is all really a shame, because it's contributing to a lot of the political and economic divide in this country, as rural areas are neglected, and shrink, and die slow deaths, while people all jostle for tiny amounts of space at high cost in dense population centers.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#102

Post by cyberpunk0 »

rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

Maryland is a pretty rich state, spoiled by military and government connections. It is a poor choice to use as a baseline for the entire nation when plenty of rural areas are still barely scaping by economically and in terms of access to the Internet. Raising the baseline ability of our communications networks is anything but a terrible economic investment, the fact that you cite Netflix shows your focus is only on the short term. I challenge you to look beyond your short sightedness, once people have had their fill with the benefits to media consumption afforded by higher bandwidth connections, and into the future where such connections will be necessary as our infrastructure and information expand in the decades to come

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#103

Post by southerndrift »

LeanderK wrote: post #42

well, germany is quite spread out and has lots of tech in smaller towns. It's not always perfect and we are also struggeling with some things, but I think a few approaches can be emulated. First, I think it's important that the small town is not on it's own, but in a close neighborhood of other smaller towns with which it's cooperating a lot. For a serious tech economy, even small towns need a working ecosystem (and…

If you speak French or German, there is this recent documentary about China linking up its villages to e-commerce [1].

The presented village specialized in silver manufacturing. The example supports your thesis that some form of specialization is needed to be competitive enough in a market.

That said, I think research facilities are only needed if the economy is focused on state of the art technology. Otherwise, the joined experience of the businesses seem to be enough to keep them competitive.

What's interesting to me is that the Chinese villagers seem to have jumped on the opportunity on their own, without any government incentives. I would like to know what's holding back other villages in China or around the world to look for their own opportunities?

[1]: https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/085121-000-A/china-doerfer-mit...

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#104

Post by lsc »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #101

I was one part of a group of people who worked hard for several years to try to nurture a growing a tech scene in a rural area not far from Sacramento. I stepped away from that almost two years ago and my current thinking is it can't be done, not just because we largely failed at it but because there are a number of other towns trying to do the same and they aren't getting traction either. I wonder if a healthy tech…

I grew up in a rural area near Sacramento. Culture is your big problem; when I was there, reading in public was "gay" and grounds for a (light) beating/physical humiliation.

Of course, I was in high school at the time, and high school is terrible everywhere; I'm sure it's different for adults. But, point being, at least in the '90s, it was not a place that encourages you to study or engage in intellectual pursuits.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#105

Post by ghaff »

rayiner wrote: post #79
jonstewart wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question comes across as a bit rude. To answer it, because after half a year of looking, it was far closer to the ideal across a range of factors than anything else we’d found. I didn’t really notice how terrible the DSL was until after we purchased. The Eastern Shore in Maryland can be pretty rural, but it’s still Maryland. Euston is 15,000; my place is between two villages, one of 900 and the other of 1600. In…

I'm trying to tease out what you value, in an economic sense. Khanna is proposing to spend a bunch of taxpayer money building fiber in rural areas, in hopes that it helps economically revitalize these places. But you're someone who already works in tech , and judges a house to be "closer to the ideal across a range of factors" even though it has nothing faster than DSL. If someone who already has a need for fast conn…

I'm probably in the minority but I don't really understand the obsession with fiber. I have about a 25 Mbit connection at home and that's fine for remote work most of the time. My cable is sometimes a little wonky on video calls but that's not the end of the world. [And TBH people calling in from our offices have their own problems off and on as well.]

Marginal DSL like my dad has--maybe 1 Mbit--is indeed something of an issue for my working from his house. (Also marginal cell coverage.) On the other hand, I know someone who works remotely from home who just has a satellite connection.

Yes, having an internet connection is important. But I'm far less convinced of the incremental value of high-speed fiber.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#106

Post by LyndsySimon »

Education is not the issue, in my experience - career opportunities are.

I work remotely and live in a rural area. To get my career to the point where I could reliably find remote work, I moved to Charlottesville, VA for five years.

Meanwhile, of the 20 or so people I’ve tracked down with two-year degrees intended to train them for tech jobs, exactly zero have done so. The primary problem that I see is that no one wants to hire a remote junior developer. Senior, sure, but never junior.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#107

Post by dbattaglia »

ascar wrote: post #58
paulsutter wrote: post #41

More remote-first companies are the best way to bring jobs everywhere. Remote-first working is a separate and new skill that needs to be developed.

I'm not sure that there is enough demand for remote work. Many people enjoy and even require the social interactions provided at a workplace and don't want solitary remote work.

I’m currently at my third remote job. The first time, I was 29, newly single and I found it got old real fast. Moving back to an office environment was a major improvement for me. Fast forward 10 years, I’m married again, different living situation (in the city now) and I absolutely love the freedom and lifestyle of working remote again. There are a ton of factors involved but I suspect I’m not alone in finding remote work more appealing as I get older and more settled.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#108

Post by jelliclesfarm »

zozbot123 wrote: post #84
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any example of higher density real estate development leading to affordable housing? High density only seems to stress existing resources and infrastructure while making cost of living more unaffordable. It’s baffling. And yet, we keep buying the myth of high density sustainability. This year is going to be the year I give up all delusions and stop being naive.

It's a complex question. Higher-density areas are more affordable, other things being equal. They're also a lot more desirable and appealing than the lower-density alternative, and this is what can make them "less affordable" to some, while still being quite easily affordable to others. They have inbuilt gentrification potential. But gentrification is a great thing - it directly translates into a better quality of li…

Can you give an example?

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#109

Post by thaumaturgy »

lsc wrote: post #104
thaumaturgy wrote: post #101

I was one part of a group of people who worked hard for several years to try to nurture a growing a tech scene in a rural area not far from Sacramento. I stepped away from that almost two years ago and my current thinking is it can't be done, not just because we largely failed at it but because there are a number of other towns trying to do the same and they aren't getting traction either. I wonder if a healthy tech…

I grew up in a rural area near Sacramento. Culture is your big problem; when I was there, reading in public was "gay" and grounds for a (light) beating/physical humiliation. Of course, I was in high school at the time, and high school is terrible everywhere; I'm sure it's different for adults. But, point being, at least in the '90s, it was not a place that encourages you to study or engage in intellectual pursuits.

Culture can be one of the challenges, and it is different once you get out of high school. This area (Nevada County) is far less hostile overall.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#110

Post by [deleted] »

oculusthrift wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

i think it’s perfectly fine to invest public money on things that improve everyone’s lives. for me and and many others fiber provides a much higher quality of living even if it doesn’t bring extra growth economically.

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