Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas • Hacker News Board

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#81

Post by jelliclesfarm » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #76

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They deliver promises to people who can’t vote because they spend money and earn money and pay taxes anyways. An elected politician is not a monarch or a benevolent dictator or an altruistic philanthropist. He is a representative of those who voted for him. And re: why is this wrong? Because the politicians necessarily have to lie and or fudge facts or back track on promises because there is a fundamental conflict of…

I see that you're not a fan, but there are many among us who support HSR and more housing in places like Cupertino. The fact that it's $2 million indicates it's desperately needed. Though I agree that HSR has been suboptimal. I'd have preferred to have a massive improvement in medium speed rail than a focus on HSR specifically - just make the Coast Starlight take 8 hours from downtown SF to DTLA, not 13, and you'd ha…

I voted for HSR. I am utterly disillusioned now. I don’t trust anything coming out of Sacramento now.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#82

Post by jelliclesfarm » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #76

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They deliver promises to people who can’t vote because they spend money and earn money and pay taxes anyways. An elected politician is not a monarch or a benevolent dictator or an altruistic philanthropist. He is a representative of those who voted for him. And re: why is this wrong? Because the politicians necessarily have to lie and or fudge facts or back track on promises because there is a fundamental conflict of…

I see that you're not a fan, but there are many among us who support HSR and more housing in places like Cupertino. The fact that it's $2 million indicates it's desperately needed. Though I agree that HSR has been suboptimal. I'd have preferred to have a massive improvement in medium speed rail than a focus on HSR specifically - just make the Coast Starlight take 8 hours from downtown SF to DTLA, not 13, and you'd ha…

Do you have any example of higher density real estate development leading to affordable housing? High density only seems to stress existing resources and infrastructure while making cost of living more unaffordable.

It’s baffling. And yet, we keep buying the myth of high density sustainability. This year is going to be the year I give up all delusions and stop being naive.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#83

Post by LeanderK » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

jonstewart wrote: post #64

LeanderK wrote: post #42

well, germany is quite spread out and has lots of tech in smaller towns. It's not always perfect and we are also struggeling with some things, but I think a few approaches can be emulated. First, I think it's important that the small town is not on it's own, but in a close neighborhood of other smaller towns with which it's cooperating a lot. For a serious tech economy, even small towns need a working ecosystem (and…

Germany has a good railway system that connects many (most? all?) small villages with nearby towns with nearby cities. More importantly, its rural population density is an order of magnitude greater than the US, at 237/km^2 vs 35/km^2 (source: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/rural-population-percen... , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-... ). The biggest misconception that I’ve found m…

I agree that the population density is a big factor, i wanted to express that with "not-too-small-towns". I don't see how tech-jobs can move into the completely rural areas. But there are still areas left above the critical population mass.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#84

Post by zozbot123 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #82

CalRobert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that you're not a fan, but there are many among us who support HSR and more housing in places like Cupertino. The fact that it's $2 million indicates it's desperately needed. Though I agree that HSR has been suboptimal. I'd have preferred to have a massive improvement in medium speed rail than a focus on HSR specifically - just make the Coast Starlight take 8 hours from downtown SF to DTLA, not 13, and you'd ha…

Do you have any example of higher density real estate development leading to affordable housing? High density only seems to stress existing resources and infrastructure while making cost of living more unaffordable. It’s baffling. And yet, we keep buying the myth of high density sustainability. This year is going to be the year I give up all delusions and stop being naive.

It's a complex question. Higher-density areas are more affordable, other things being equal. They're also a lot more desirable and appealing than the lower-density alternative, and this is what can make them "less affordable" to some, while still being quite easily affordable to others. They have inbuilt gentrification potential. But gentrification is a great thing - it directly translates into a better quality of life! And if it spreads sufficiently, to the point that "higher density" is not a rarity anymore, it doesn't even have to mean high rents.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#85

Post by randomdata » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #78

randomdata wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn’t that they are copying the rich, they are going from places where there are few opportunities to where their are many opportunities. The appearance of opportunities. Sometimes the opportunities are real, usually not. Plenty of people move to California in hopes of becoming a star, where opportunities are abound, but only end up in dead-end jobs. It is quite likely that those people would have been far bette…

Moving to california because you want to be a star is not "fashion", its a dream. > It is quite likely that those people would have been far better off in a mundane job where competition isn't fierce and where living costs won't destroy you. Or they would have regretted the rest of their lives not taking chances when they were young instead doing poop work on the farm or working a dead end job in a small town.

> Moving to california because you want to be a star is not "fashion", its a dream.

I think you may have misinterpreted what fashion means. Fashion refers to clothing. Throughout the ages, poor people have tried to wear clothing that rich people have been seen wearing with the belief that the right clothing will help them become rich. This is very well documented over centuries, and something that remains ever-present today. It was another example of how the poor emulate the rich, as is human nature.

> Or they would have regretted the rest of their lives not taking chances when they were young instead doing poop work on the farm or working a dead end job in a small town.

Okay. Sure. Humans are indeed emotional creatures. Emotions are also the reason why the poor try to emulate the rich as it feels right, even if it not based in anything substantiative. But as far as outcome goes, such a person would be better off in a mundane job than chasing a dream.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#86

Post by dang » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

hnaccy wrote: post #14

>Economists keep telling those left out of our digital future to move to the tech hubs. Sometimes I wonder if they have ever been to places like Jefferson, Iowa, or Beckley, W.Va. If they visit, they will realize that many people there are not looking to move. They are proud of their small-town values and enjoy being close to family. They brag that their town doesn’t need many traffic lights. Then they can enjoy the…

Please don't post shallow dismissals to HN. It degrades discussion and we're trying for better than that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#87

Post by RickJWagner » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

What a nice article. I'm a programmer living in a rural area (and am usually politically conservative.) I really didn't expect to see such an article in the NYT, especially authored by a politician from the left side of the aisle.

Brings a good start to 2019. Thanks, Rep. Khanna!

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#88

Post by lsc » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #44

lsc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Moving from a poor area, where cost of living is generally lower (although not always), to a rich area, where cost of living is generally higher, does not mean that you, yourself, will become rich. For the average person, that only results in skyrocketing costs, leading to a reduction in quality of life. Maybe? but there are claims that for those of us without education, how much we make depends largely on how many…

> but there are claims that for those of us without education, how much we make depends largely on how many educated people we are near. There are a lot of dubious claims about education though. I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt. Some even claim that gaining an education will result in earning more money, all while incomes have remained stagnant for decades upon decades and educational attainment has…

>Your strong ties to the Bay Area suggest that you are probably involved in tech. Which is no doubt centred around the Bay Area, and pays less outside of the Bay Area no matter who you are. But what if all you knew was farming? Do you think you'd see a huge pay bump by moving your farm to the Bay Area (or any other major metropolis)?

If I inherited a bunch of debt-free land and equipment from my dad rather than a bunch of tech skills and contacts? sure, things would be very different. But I didn't, and agriculture is less than 2% of the labor force, and most of those people are hired workers, not the owner-operators, which is usually what we mean by "farmer" rather than "farm hand"

For that matter, the farmers of my famiy's ancestral lands? Both inherited family lands and are highly educated. Yeah, there's still physical work involved, but figuring out how to operate these million dollar machines they use? at least as compex as operating the computers I use; and figuring how to fertalize and otherwise maintain the soil quality? I'd argue is probably a lot more complex, and higher risk.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#89

Post by oculusthrift » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

i think it’s perfectly fine to invest public money on things that improve everyone’s lives. for me and and many others fiber provides a much higher quality of living even if it doesn’t bring extra growth economically.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#90

Post by lsc » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #44

lsc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Moving from a poor area, where cost of living is generally lower (although not always), to a rich area, where cost of living is generally higher, does not mean that you, yourself, will become rich. For the average person, that only results in skyrocketing costs, leading to a reduction in quality of life. Maybe? but there are claims that for those of us without education, how much we make depends largely on how many…

> but there are claims that for those of us without education, how much we make depends largely on how many educated people we are near. There are a lot of dubious claims about education though. I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt. Some even claim that gaining an education will result in earning more money, all while incomes have remained stagnant for decades upon decades and educational attainment has…

>There are a lot of dubious claims about education though. I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt. Some even claim that gaining an education will result in earning more money, all while incomes have remained stagnant for decades upon decades and educational attainment has ballooned. How does one earn more money while also earning the same amount of money...?

all incomes? are you seriously going to clam that incomes for tech workers and others of this (mostly highly-educated) caste haven't risen dramatically in the last three decades?