Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas • Hacker News Board

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#21

Post by thrwthrw93223 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

How is it just a choice of living in a poor area vs a rich one? What if the people living in the poor areas don’t even have a high school degree? Can they suddenly decide they want to work and live in the rich area?

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#22

Post by zozbot123 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

velobro wrote: post #15

zozbot123 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about “stop being actively hostile to people”. Most rural areas are populated by anti-people people. ... I don't buy this. Have you ever been to some of these places (let alone "most" of them) or are you just repeating self-serving urbanites' stereotypes? Villeinizing rural folks is a pastime as old as history itself.

[flagged]

> ... They want the opportunities of a big city where there are more people, but they don't "like" people. That's why they choose to live rural and have that become part of their identity. That "identity" is wholly incompatible with a densly populated area. ...

Or maybe they just like living somewhere cheap and with plenty of space around them. You know, like anyone sensible would, other things being equal. It has nothing to do with them being misanthropes. Or are Chinese and Indian folks so much more empathetic than us Westerners also, because they live in such population density?

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#23

Post by chillacy » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

thrwthrw93223 wrote: post #21

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

How is it just a choice of living in a poor area vs a rich one? What if the people living in the poor areas don’t even have a high school degree? Can they suddenly decide they want to work and live in the rich area?

I’m a couple generations maybe. Moving from a poor area to a rich one and working your butt off for your kid’s education so they can reach professional successes you didn’t have the opportunity to is an archetypical immigrant story.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#24

Post by randomdata » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

Trouble is that while cities may be rich, the people living there are not.

It is true that cities are the likely home to those with incredible fortunes, but they are also home to many in abject poverty. In fact, while average incomes tend to be higher in big cities, median incomes in big cities tend to be lower. This suggests that you have some people doing really well, and a whole lot of people doing not so great.

Which is all well and good if you are, say, a software developer and can move to the Bay Area to make $150,000+ per year, but that only describes a very small segment of the population who are able to do that. The typical person is going to find themselves in the "not so great" category. McDonalds pays more or less the same whether you are in the big city or in a small town. The average rural (or urban, for that matter) resident is not going to become a software developer on a whim.

Moving from a poor area, where cost of living is generally lower (although not always), to a rich area, where cost of living is generally higher, does not mean that you, yourself, will become rich. For the average person, that only results in skyrocketing costs, leading to a reduction in quality of life.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#25

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:44 PM UTC

I come from a small town (a few thousand people). I was able to “get out” because I found a remote position.

I think that is the cheapest way — for the employer and employee —- to lift these these places up.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#26

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #24

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

Trouble is that while cities may be rich, the people living there are not. It is true that cities are the likely home to those with incredible fortunes, but they are also home to many in abject poverty. In fact, while average incomes tend to be higher in big cities, median incomes in big cities tend to be lower . This suggests that you have some people doing really well, and a whole lot of people doing not so great.…

The city has a concentration of talent and capital, this doesn’t mean it doesn’t have other things also. In fact, cities are seen as stepping stones for many that lack much talent or capital, which is why they have a lot of poor people: the cities are not creating these people themselves, quite the opposite actually.

The kid working st Mcdonads in the big city is probably making $15/hour vs. $8 back in their rural home. Still not enough to live in the big city, but then again that isn’t the only thing they are doing there (they didn’t move to the big city to work in fast food, they have their side gig going on, be it acting or education or whatever). Back home, they would simply be stuck with not much hope for improvement. Ya, their chances of striking it rich aren’t great, but in Seattle it is non zero while in Marysville it is pretty much zero.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

thrwthrw93223 wrote: post #21

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

How is it just a choice of living in a poor area vs a rich one? What if the people living in the poor areas don’t even have a high school degree? Can they suddenly decide they want to work and live in the rich area?

Yes, that has been happening for the last 150 years at least.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#28

Post by zozbot123 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #24

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

Trouble is that while cities may be rich, the people living there are not. It is true that cities are the likely home to those with incredible fortunes, but they are also home to many in abject poverty. In fact, while average incomes tend to be higher in big cities, median incomes in big cities tend to be lower . This suggests that you have some people doing really well, and a whole lot of people doing not so great.…

> McDonalds pays more or less the same whether you are in the big city or in a small town.

...partially adjusted for local cost of living, of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balassa-Samuelson_effect Which means that, yes, staying in the city is generally a bad deal for a low-productivity worker in the non-tradable sector. But not as much of a bad deal as it would be if those wage variations did not exist. And they might be able to make up for it and even come out ahead by being super frugal and saving most of their income (this is the archetypical "unskilled immigrant to a rich area" story).

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#29

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #17

hnaccy wrote: post #14

>Economists keep telling those left out of our digital future to move to the tech hubs. Sometimes I wonder if they have ever been to places like Jefferson, Iowa, or Beckley, W.Va. If they visit, they will realize that many people there are not looking to move. They are proud of their small-town values and enjoy being close to family. They brag that their town doesn’t need many traffic lights. Then they can enjoy the…

Ah yes, only two choices. The economic desolation of small towns, or the over zoned asset inflated city. This surely end well.

[deleted]

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#30

Post by lsc » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #24

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

If cities are rich because of high concentrations of capital and talent, then it really is a choice between living in a poor area and living in a rich one. You can’t make the poor areas rich without giving them qualities of the rich areas, at which point they simply switch over and become “big cities”.

Trouble is that while cities may be rich, the people living there are not. It is true that cities are the likely home to those with incredible fortunes, but they are also home to many in abject poverty. In fact, while average incomes tend to be higher in big cities, median incomes in big cities tend to be lower . This suggests that you have some people doing really well, and a whole lot of people doing not so great.…

>Moving from a poor area, where cost of living is generally lower (although not always), to a rich area, where cost of living is generally higher, does not mean that you, yourself, will become rich. For the average person, that only results in skyrocketing costs, leading to a reduction in quality of life.

Maybe? but there are claims that for those of us without education, how much we make depends largely on how many educated people we are near.

The location-based pay differential is much larger for people who don't have a college degree than for those who do.

That's a big part of why I am so stuck on the bay area; I don't have a degree, and I do really well here. All the offers I get from other parts of the country are terrible.