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Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

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Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#31

Post by hyperbovine »

sixeleven wrote: post #29
pram wrote: post #12

Downtown Detroit is kind of starting to seem like a Potemkin village. A lot of these “comeback” articles focus primarily on the development in a tiny portion of the city that honestly never declined that much to begin with, in comparison to everything else. Crime and poverty are still insanely high. The school system is a tragic disaster. The majority of the urban area is still abandoned and blighted. It’s really not…

I work downtown but live in the burbs. I totally agree. Its a strange feeling when the entire business district (which is what is seen as evidence of the "comeback") feels just like a giant Quicken campus. I see far more private security than police.

The burbs sprang up around a city and economy 3-4x as large as it is today. Coupled with an overall shift in preferences towards urban living among millennials, it seems unlikely that there will ever again be a need for as much suburban housing around Detroit as there was in 1950. In other words, is it really reasonable to expect all of these areas to rebound?

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#32

Post by flurdy »

afarrell wrote: post #14
jlj wrote: post #2

I passed on a consulting opportunity to move the city's bond finances from paper and spreadsheets to an ERP system back in 2008. At that point it sounded like no one really knew how good or bad things were financially for the city. I took an easy corporate job instead. Missed a great learning opportunity a few years out of college and wish I would have gone for it. Happy to see them turn around.

> a few years out of college How good were you at communicating about software estimates back then?

Probably no better than today?

I certainly am, just perhaps better at communicating that it is a futile pointless guesstimate theatre. At detail and macro project level.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#33

Post by sixeleven »

hyperbovine wrote: post #31
sixeleven wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work downtown but live in the burbs. I totally agree. Its a strange feeling when the entire business district (which is what is seen as evidence of the "comeback") feels just like a giant Quicken campus. I see far more private security than police.

The burbs sprang up around a city and economy 3-4x as large as it is today. Coupled with an overall shift in preferences towards urban living among millennials, it seems unlikely that there will ever again be a need for as much suburban housing around Detroit as there was in 1950. In other words, is it really reasonable to expect all of these areas to rebound?

My comment was more about how the core of downtown feels more like a corporate campus rather than a downtown city, it's a strange feeling. However, I think it's reasonable to question the expectations of which areas will rebound in this era.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#35

Post by dataminded »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #24
pram wrote: post #12

Downtown Detroit is kind of starting to seem like a Potemkin village. A lot of these “comeback” articles focus primarily on the development in a tiny portion of the city that honestly never declined that much to begin with, in comparison to everything else. Crime and poverty are still insanely high. The school system is a tragic disaster. The majority of the urban area is still abandoned and blighted. It’s really not…

Are the emergency services still really slow and the property taxes reasonably high? Because if so.... Not much of a comeback. Would be like comparing Greenpoint to Canarsie

Yes and yes. My last two attempts to call 911 failed because nobody would pick up. My alarm company was on hold to get to the police department for like 15+ minutes.

Taxes are insane compared to what I would pay in a suburb that provided basic services and decent schools. I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Detroit but will likely leave it for the burbs in the next year. Detroit just isn’t affordable for a young family.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#36

Post by subpixel »

missingcolours wrote: post #4
echelon wrote: post #3

How's the real estate in Detroit? Is it too late to invest in good property for cheap?

Expensive downtown and cheap in the neighborhoods, so no, but it's far less clear to me that the neighborhoods will rebound in the way that the downtown area has (nearly all of Detroit's non-gentrified areas are overwhelmingly black, and across the midwest predominantly black neighborhoods have proven quite resilient to gentrification, for better or worse).

A rebound in not necessary for a real estate opportunity to exist. Even poor non-white people pay rent and there are mountains of money to be made in rental portfolios where you would not like to visit, much less live. But it’s by no means easy money - it’s a super competitive market.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#37

Post by anoncoward111 »

dataminded wrote: post #35
anoncoward111 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the emergency services still really slow and the property taxes reasonably high? Because if so.... Not much of a comeback. Would be like comparing Greenpoint to Canarsie

Yes and yes. My last two attempts to call 911 failed because nobody would pick up. My alarm company was on hold to get to the police department for like 15+ minutes. Taxes are insane compared to what I would pay in a suburb that provided basic services and decent schools. I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Detroit but will likely leave it for the burbs in the next year. Detroit just isn’t affordable for a y…

I wish you godspeed. I live in a 92% black, high tax neighborbood on Long Island, but at least the police answer the phone and crime is at reasonable levels!!

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#38

Post by ghaff »

pram wrote: post #12

Downtown Detroit is kind of starting to seem like a Potemkin village. A lot of these “comeback” articles focus primarily on the development in a tiny portion of the city that honestly never declined that much to begin with, in comparison to everything else. Crime and poverty are still insanely high. The school system is a tragic disaster. The majority of the urban area is still abandoned and blighted. It’s really not…

You see this in a lot of places. There are a lot of smaller cities in New England and elsewhere that have gentrified at some level. But that gentrification often seems to mean that there are maybe 20 square blocks of new condos, hip restaurants, craft bars, boutiques, a nice park, a few employers, etc.--and then things outside that radius get sketchy again rather quickly.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#39

Post by ghaff »

dbmk wrote: post #34

The winters are still horrible, and Americans are somewhat less tolerant of that than they once were. It would take a small miracle to make Detroit into what it used to be in 1914-1960.

I don't necessarily disagree with your broader point but what makes you think Americans are less tolerant of winter than they once were? Cities like NYC and Boston/Cambridge seem to be doing just fine.

Re: Detroit's Big Comeback: Out of Bankruptcy, a Rebirth

#40

Post by qudat »

sixeleven wrote: post #29
pram wrote: post #12

Downtown Detroit is kind of starting to seem like a Potemkin village. A lot of these “comeback” articles focus primarily on the development in a tiny portion of the city that honestly never declined that much to begin with, in comparison to everything else. Crime and poverty are still insanely high. The school system is a tragic disaster. The majority of the urban area is still abandoned and blighted. It’s really not…

I work downtown but live in the burbs. I totally agree. Its a strange feeling when the entire business district (which is what is seen as evidence of the "comeback") feels just like a giant Quicken campus. I see far more private security than police.

Agreed. This city is a commuter city: everyone drives into downtown at 8 am and migrates out into detroit metro at 5 pm. It's a nightmare commute.

I really enjoyed working by Campus Martius but the commute was brutal. I also did not enjoy the insanely high parking prices.

I totally agree about the Quicken vibe. Dan Gilbert owns a significant portion of the real estate downtown.

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