Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#191

Post by sjwright » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:33 AM UTC

pentae wrote: post #176

sjwright wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're complaining about the experience from a developer, which is not what this analogy is about. No, Wal-Mart isn't allowed to run their own business in a company town. As for push notifications—it's not surprising that Apple doesn't allow the HTTP version because it would be chaos for battery life. Besides, any website can offer a totally free native app that simply performs push notifications for your site. You d…

As someone thats submitted over 50 apps to the app store over the last 8 yrs through my agency I disagree. Try submitting a "totally free native app that only performs push notifications for your site" and watch them immediately reject your app for not being "App-like enough". How do I know this? Because I've actually done it. Sorry but your idealistic opinions just don't reflect reality.

I've submitted a multitude of apps to the App Store as well. Of course Apple will reject it if you try to make it simply perform notifications—but exceeding that hilariously low bar is honestly not difficult for anyone with an ounce of creativity.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#192

Post by m45t3r » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

lance76 wrote: post #178

stcredzero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to blame anyone for leaving any store when there has been almost nothing of value added in years and things are even regressing. That 30% should have gone a lot further It's not really a market if the seller thinks there's no alternatives, and the buyer has no choice but to put up with anything. Works the other way around, too.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

> Don't be naive, everyone. This is more than just about the 30% cut. This is also about Netflix having a LOT of extra data on their customers they can't get within the Apple ecosystem.... home addresses, full names, credit card data, and possibly (yes, quiet possibly) cross-referencing that with other data providers to determine credit scores, income brackets, lifestyle choices, etc.

I am no developer of iOS, but I am quite sure that Apple gives this information to developers. I worked in a payment system for years and this kind of information is quite common to share with your API users. I think they're even obligated by law because you can't really have a monetary transfer without sharing more details between both parties involved (yeah, you also have more information about the seller when money is involved).

I mean, I don't see how Apple would share less information with Netflix, them say, Stripe itself. Of course Netflix has some more information about you because you're using their platform to make the payment, however about the payment data itself I would say the information they can get with both Apple or Stripe is similar [1].

[1]: Unless of course Netflix made their own payment system, that also would make sense considering their size. In this case they would have more information about you, like full Credit Card number instead of only the bin number of your Credit Card. However I don't think this would make my point much different.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#193

Post by peteretep » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

lance76 wrote: post #178

stcredzero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to blame anyone for leaving any store when there has been almost nothing of value added in years and things are even regressing. That 30% should have gone a lot further It's not really a market if the seller thinks there's no alternatives, and the buyer has no choice but to put up with anything. Works the other way around, too.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

Not sure what I’m adding here, but I used to feel this way about PayPal and Amazon too. PayPal lost my loyalty years ago, Amazon I now run all products through a review checker and don’t buy clothes from them anymore

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#194

Post by hermitdev » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #167

sjwright wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a company town is also a good analogy. Maybe even a better one, though it is a lot easier and cheaper to switch mobile platforms than it is to pick up your whole life. To expand your analogy, nothing stops you from owning homes in two different towns at the same time. (Nobody is forcing you to carry just one mobile phone, even though most people do.) And in this company town, yes they own all the stores and play…

(Nobody is forcing you to carry just one mobile phone, even though most people do.) So now we're getting somewhere. This is the height of the wall around this particular walled garden. Now let me ask this: What percentage of the population would even consider owning two smartphones? That's how close to an idealized monopoly this walled garden is. So granted, it's not a monopoly in an idealized sense. But we now quant…

I used to carry 2 smart phones- one for work, one personal. I did it because my work phone was strictly monitored and I didnt want my company (or feds, namely SEC) reading my personal communications without a warrant just because it was on my work phone.

That said, I would not pay for 2 personal smartphones.

Edit: spelling

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#195

Post by BonesJustice » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:39 AM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #41

writepub wrote: post #30

It's ludicrous for Apple to state they somehow increased business for Netflix, because they allowed "sign-up" via iOS. That's like Google claiming they allowed sign-up via chrome, or AT&T claiming they allowed sign up via their Network. Apple adds ZERO value via the app store, both for devs and for the consumers.

Not having to deal with separate payment accounts is a huge value add at least for some consumers. I bought HBO to watch Westworld season 2 on Google play. If it wasn't that easy I would have made the effort to find someone's account - still easier than an account and payment workflow. HBO made at least.7x$40 from me.

Exactly. And Apple makes it easy when it comes to cancellation too: go to my Subscriptions screen, select the service, and click ‘cancel’. It doesn’t matter who provides the service—it’s always quick and easy.

Granted, Netflix has always made it as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, so I don’t have an issue subscribing through them (and, in fact, I did).

If I thought I’d have to deal with HBO (now owned by AT&T), I’d definitely think twice before subscribing through them. I don’t know what their normal cancellation policy is, but I generally refuse to deal with service providers that force me to call a support line, wait on hold, and then deal with some customer retention rep.

Apart from Netflix, the only app where I’ll bypass Apple for purchases is Prime Video, and I’m put off enough by the process that I’ll only buy content through them that I can’t buy from iTunes.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#196

Post by hardlianotion » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #193

lance76 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. It is not equal. I choose Apple's store for one Very Big Reason over almost all other third-party services: I trust them with my financial details. I don't have to 'beg' to later cancel my subscription. I don't have to worry about my credit card being stolen. I don't have to worry about a bunch of sophomoric engineers breaking their own website and creating grief for me. I am in control with Ap…

Not sure what I’m adding here, but I used to feel this way about PayPal and Amazon too. PayPal lost my loyalty years ago, Amazon I now run all products through a review checker and don’t buy clothes from them anymore

What’s a review checker?

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#197

Post by m45t3r » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #160

stemuk wrote: post #136

Personally I feel like the most ridiculous part about the App Store is Apples so called "developer program". Charging 99€ a Year for a nearly nonexistent service is absurd, especially since they are already taking the 30% cut. I am a flutter developer myself, so technically I could publish all my apps on iOS and Android with minimal changes. But since Apples developer program would eat up a significant portion of my…

And Apple has thus done the world a favor. The last thing we need is more cross platform not quite native apps... But as far as $99, between my $300 a year Linux Academy subscription, $144 a year JetBrains Resharper subscription and the money I spend on Udemy, $99 a year is nothing.

It also keep very interesting apps from being in platform, from hobbysts/opensource developers, for example.

Last time I used iOS had terrible apps for Keepass (I tested them all, trust me [1]), while Android has at least two very good implementations (both opensource, one based on the official C# implementation with a native interface in Mono and another one less featured however fully written in Java).

> But as far as $99, between my $300 a year Linux Academy subscription, $144 a year JetBrains Resharper subscription and the money I spend on Udemy, $99 a year is nothing.

Congratulations, so for you this is nothing. If I wanted to develop for iOS as a hobbyst I would need to pay ~R$400,00 (this is equivalent almost half of a minimum wage in Brazil) [1]. I am not even including the expenses of buying a iOS device and a Mac just to have the "privilege" to develop to an Apple device.

[1]: Or don't, because Apple Store search is terrible. [2]: Just to make clear, I could afford this too if I wanted. However just because you and I can afford it doesn't mean this tax is abusive.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#198

Post by sk_hazratali » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

Personally I feel like the most ridiculous part about the App Store is Apples so called "developer program". Charging 99€ a Year for a nearly nonexistent service is absurd, especially since they are already taking the 30% cut. I am a flutter developer myself, so technically I could publish all my apps on iOS and Android with minimal changes. But since Apples developer program would eat up a significant portion of my potential yearly earnings I simply publish only on the Play Store that only charges a modest 25€ one time registration fee.

https://www.sherekhudahazratali.com/2018/12/ghous-e-azam-bam...

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#199

Post by mgkimsal » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:54 AM UTC

As long as we're bitching about the 'apple tax'.... I'll toss out an unrelated-yet-perplexing issue I've had with mac/ios/etc since... 2008?:

Slow app store speed.

It doesn't matter what device I'm on - multiple macbooks, imacs, iphones, ipods, ipads, etc, all running through multiple cable and dsl providers in multiple states over the last decade.

Download speed is abysmal. 30meg app update - why does this take 2-3 minutes on a connection that can get 120Mbps from multiple other sources? I've just never been able to understand how they can stream live video around the world instantly, but grabbing an 8meg update is *ever a > 1 minute process.

12+ devices over a decade, from multiple carriers in multiple states, and always slow speeds. But no doubt other people here will have "all my updates are less than 8 seconds, all the time, for years" anecdotes. :/

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#200

Post by CreepGin » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:57 AM UTC

hardlianotion wrote: post #196

peteretep wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what I’m adding here, but I used to feel this way about PayPal and Amazon too. PayPal lost my loyalty years ago, Amazon I now run all products through a review checker and don’t buy clothes from them anymore

What’s a review checker?

Something like https://fakespot.com

It analyzes product reviews to detect fake ones.