Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#141

Post by max76 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:18 AM UTC

stemuk wrote: post #136

Personally I feel like the most ridiculous part about the App Store is Apples so called "developer program". Charging 99€ a Year for a nearly nonexistent service is absurd, especially since they are already taking the 30% cut. I am a flutter developer myself, so technically I could publish all my apps on iOS and Android with minimal changes. But since Apples developer program would eat up a significant portion of my…

I like the $99/yr bar of entry. That, combined with the more rigid review process, keeps the App Store's average app quality higher than the Play Store's.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#142

Post by a1369209993 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:18 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #123

gcb0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Apple store seems good for small apps that is fine if you ever show up as featured. Which is 1% of the apps, and even then, from already big companies after they spent the marketing money. Other than that, for distribution (really?) and payment, there are tons of alternatives/competition the small apps cannot even consider. App store is nothing other than a racketeering scheme where you have to pay if you can't…

In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%. After you pay for manufacturing and distribution (shipping shrink-wrapped boxes of CD-ROMs, multilingual manuals and a unique serial number to retailers in Alaska and Singapore is definitely not free) a developer would be lucky to end up with one third of the retail price in their pocket. The Apple app store is actually a huge…

> In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%.

In the past, you bought hardware that could run software from more than one retailer.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#143

Post by sjwright » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:19 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #133

sjwright wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a market. It's like a shopping mall on a cruise ship—you chose to go on this cruise, and if you don't like dealing with the ship as a monopoly vendor, you can get off the ship and buy whatever you like from wherever. Just because this cruise happens to be the nicest, most comfortable vessel in the sea doesn't mean you have a right to expect space to be reserved on the ship for competitor's stores.

Sure, but in the case of the cruise ship, you can just wait until the cruise is over and buy things at your usual store at home. So the analogy falls down at a pretty fundamental level. It's more like you're living in a company town, and there's no openly advertised non-black market alternatives to the company shops.

Yes, a company town is also a good analogy. Maybe even a better one, though it is a lot easier and cheaper to switch mobile platforms than it is to pick up your whole life. To expand your analogy, nothing stops you from owning homes in two different towns at the same time. (Nobody is forcing you to carry just one mobile phone, even though most people do.)

And in this company town, yes they own all the stores and playgrounds, but you can still get stuff delivered from anywhere. (All these phones have web browsers that give you unencumbered access to the wider internet. No you can't play Fortnite through a web browser, but you can't play football by mail-order either, so the analogy holds.)

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#144

Post by josho » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:19 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #123

gcb0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Apple store seems good for small apps that is fine if you ever show up as featured. Which is 1% of the apps, and even then, from already big companies after they spent the marketing money. Other than that, for distribution (really?) and payment, there are tons of alternatives/competition the small apps cannot even consider. App store is nothing other than a racketeering scheme where you have to pay if you can't…

In the past, you bought software in a box from a retailer who took a margin as high as 50%. After you pay for manufacturing and distribution (shipping shrink-wrapped boxes of CD-ROMs, multilingual manuals and a unique serial number to retailers in Alaska and Singapore is definitely not free) a developer would be lucky to end up with one third of the retail price in their pocket. The Apple app store is actually a huge…

> Apple created the marketplace

It used to be that the maker of the OS spent tremendous efforts to attract developers. They did this for free to gain app market share.

So, your argument falls flat. Apple is doing this to generate profit. They continue doing so because of their dominant iOS market share and that for apps there is no alternative.

Please stop making excuses for trillion dollar companies.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#145

Post by eisa01 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:19 AM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #87

Rjevski wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple adds a lot of value via the App Store for initial app purchase/download. I agree they add very minimal value for recurring subscriptions, and their fee should be dialled back to be inline with what card processors charge (because they're essentially offering payment processing and not much else).

The app store provides value to customers for recurring charges by being a MitM and offering an interface for recurring subscriptions. I can go to the recurring charges bit of the interface and see all the apps that can charge me. I never give CC info if I can help it. Once you give out your CC info, you have to be eternally vigilant because they can charge you on their terms. And to cancel, you have to hop through w…

What about PayPal? Would you trust them?

To me that's an equivalent service on the payment processing side

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#146

Post by eisa01 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:22 AM UTC

toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #3

skh wrote: post #2

I wonder how much money it costs Apple to handle subscription payments/cancellations for Netflix and other streaming services. I prefer to handle subscription through Apple because cancelling such services is never difficult. I don’t know how it is on other countries but cancelling services in the U.S. can be a hellish experience. Personally, I’d be willing to pay the “Apple Tax” on top of a subscription services’ co…

For many things I’d agree, but to their credit Netflix has always made it trivially easy to cancel. They’re one of the few modern IT companies that seem to go out of the way to make joining and leaving fair and easily comprehensible. Now if they’d just make that autoplaying a goddamned option!

Spotify is also super easy to cancel

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#147

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:22 AM UTC

max76 wrote: post #141

stemuk wrote: post #136

Personally I feel like the most ridiculous part about the App Store is Apples so called "developer program". Charging 99€ a Year for a nearly nonexistent service is absurd, especially since they are already taking the 30% cut. I am a flutter developer myself, so technically I could publish all my apps on iOS and Android with minimal changes. But since Apples developer program would eat up a significant portion of my…

I like the $99/yr bar of entry. That, combined with the more rigid review process, keeps the App Store's average app quality higher than the Play Store's.

gatekeeping can only last that long

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#148

Post by macintux » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

tokyodude wrote: post #111

dan1234 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly does Apple have? They don’t have a majority share of any platform. Any app makers not happy should boycott the platform and just release Android apps. Of course, they’d also need to avoid the Google Play store as they have pretty similar rates to the App store[0] [0] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

AFAIK that's not how it works. For example go look up Microsoft's monopoly. The commonly held believe is Microsoft was declared to have a monopoly on personal computer OSes but that is false. Microsoft was found to have a monopoly on OSes for Intel based machines. So by that same logic Apple has a monopoly on OSes for A series (A10, A11, A12) based smartphones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft…

A-series chips are just (very good) ARMs. I don’t buy that equivalence at all.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#149

Post by tanilama » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

prklmn wrote: post #137

tanilama wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts as well. How could Apple's search so bad? If it indeed brings billions a year, why wouldn't they spend that money to improve the functionality of this revenue powerhouse? Apple tax should be stopped, people are paying penalty to use their sub par software, this is as ridiculous as it gets.

Have you ever thought about the situation as being analogous to a wholesale market like Costco? Consumers pay for a Costco membership card, similar to the iPhone as it grants access to the store, then sells products in the store at a marked up rate (Apple tax as you call it). Consumers actually choose to shop at Costco because it’s a great experience for them just as consumers choose to buy iPhones and use the App St…

It is different. When I shop at Costco I know I shop at Costco and that is what I paid for. But when I buy Netflix subscription, I am paying to Netflix, not Apple. Does Apple making Netflix as a service any better? I didn't quite see that. And since this is a recurring fee, which makes it even funnier, that I am constantly paying Apple for to essentially ALLOW me watch Netflix.

And don't forget this result in a higher price for customer, while Costco's model save customer money.

I am however, see it as less of a problem if they charge fee over one-time purchase and make me aware of whether I am paying it.

Re: Netflix stops paying the ‘Apple tax’ on its $853M in annual iOS revenue

#150

Post by pxeboot » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #116

wrkronmiller wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Apple adds is non-zero. As the parent comment points out, Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution. The App Store is a single (theoretically trusted) place for iOS users to search for apps. Let's not forget that, at least in theory, Apple curates the App Store. Neither Chrome nor AT&T does that in any substantial way. Furthermore, Apple's business model is different from Google/Android's. Android can be…

Before Apple came out with the iPhone, the carriers had complete control over the apps on your phone, and their access to the network. Even initial iterations of the iPhone limited video streaming to WiFi only. Apple blazed the trail enabling millions (billions?) of hours of Netflix viewing. Apple devices are a primary use case motivating my initial Netflix subscription for kids to watch in the car on the iPad. Furth…

While carrier app stores were a thing, it was quite common to download apps from other sources before the iPhone. There were Java apps, Windows mobile apps and others.