A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China • Hacker News Board

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#71

Post by olalonde » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #34

PakG1 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first, it'd probably be a phone-primary payment world, not a phone-only payment world. The traditional bank infrastructure would probably still exist. But even if not, and it was truly a phone-only payment world, I can't believe that they wouldn't have some kind of backup process available. And even if no backup process were available, the first friend I could bump into or email could help me buy a cheap phone,…

Well, first, it'd probably be a phone-primary payment world, not a phone-only payment world That's just moving the goalposts. The whole point of the original post was that moving to a phone-only payment world is a bad thing, and that's what is happening in some places (China is only one). I see no scenarios where my risk exposure is significant in a phone loss or breakage scenario. Then I submit that you lack imagina…

That sounds a lot like losing your wallet or dropping it in the sewer. Except that losing your wallet is a lot worse. In the situation you described, I'd just borrow the driver's phone to login on WeChat and pay.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#72

Post by gruez » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:23 AM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #71

reaperducer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first, it'd probably be a phone-primary payment world, not a phone-only payment world That's just moving the goalposts. The whole point of the original post was that moving to a phone-only payment world is a bad thing, and that's what is happening in some places (China is only one). I see no scenarios where my risk exposure is significant in a phone loss or breakage scenario. Then I submit that you lack imagina…

That sounds a lot like losing your wallet or dropping it in the sewer. Except that losing your wallet is a lot worse. In the situation you described, I'd just borrow the driver's phone to login on WeChat and pay.

>That sounds a lot like losing your wallet or dropping it in the sewer

You have your phone out all the time. The risk of losing/breaking it is significantly higher than your wallet which sits your pocket 99.9% of the time.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

reuven wrote: post #17

reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses can accept foreigner credit cards. But why would they, when foreigners are a tiny proportion of the population, and taking such cards probably costs them a fortune? This is true for every other country in the world, yet somehow it's done. China is the exception. Someone just told me that the Shanghai hotel I stayed in for several days last week costs foreigners double the Chinese rate. Undoubtedly, part of…

I totally accept your point about tourist vs. local prices. But when it comes to credit cards, China is truly different: They don't have Visa or MasterCard (or AmEx) in the country. They do have Union Pay, which is a special, China-only credit card. So businesses do often take credit cards. They just don't take non-Chinese credit cards. In this sense, they are different from other countries I've visited.

UnionPay is more like Access or Plus or Maestro (atm networks) than VISA or MasterCard. UnionPay is pretty ubiquitous at bigger shops in China, but not at the small mom/pop store selling veggies downstairs.

Visa and MasterCard operate in China. Before 2016, dual branded visa/MC/Amex/UnionPay cards were pretty common (I had a couple). Then the government made that illegal for some reason. Lots of places do accept credit cards (eg starbuxks, hotels, fancy restaurants, ...).

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#74

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #23

reuven wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally accept your point about tourist vs. local prices. But when it comes to credit cards, China is truly different: They don't have Visa or MasterCard (or AmEx) in the country. They do have Union Pay, which is a special, China-only credit card. So businesses do often take credit cards. They just don't take non-Chinese credit cards. In this sense, they are different from other countries I've visited.

They do have Union Pay, which is a special, China-only credit card. Not China-only. Union Pay is widely accepted in the United States, and probably every other country. Even small gas stations in the middle of nowhere take Union Pay.

I was SOL a couple of times visiting India and Netherlands, which I scarily found did not take UnionPay cards period! Always bring plenty of backup cash (USD, not RMB) and a credit card or two, especially if you are using Chinese ATM cards.

India kind of makes sense, but the Netherlands? Seriously? I hope things are different now.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#75

Post by xster » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

Since this is being used as a guide, it might be worth being pedantic and pointing out that it's the 'wrong' way of doing it. It definitely beats carrying cash but it's a 'second class citizen'-ish way of using mobile payment.

The mechanism the OP used is the 'pocket change' system which, like its name suggest, can't be used everywhere. It's great for getting casual consummables, getting ice cream etc but doesn't work for services that requires more trust (since there is no credit system and they can't hold a charge on your credit card). For those (like rentals), you still need a local bank account.

Luckily, as others pointed out, it's fairly trivial to open a bank account with a foreign passport. The primary use method is also not to move money from your bank to your WeChat and then use it. People just leave their money in the bank draw from that via WeChat or AliPay directly.

As a random fun fact, you also don't need a local phone number to have a fully functional WeChat/AliPay account with bank linked. Though you do need a local phone number to open a bank account so it's a bit moot.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#76

Post by atr_gz » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

pascoej wrote: post #7

Nice guide. I didn’t know it was possible without the Chinese phone number + Chinese bank account. Getting a Chinese phone number and bank account was surprisingly painless for me. You prepay around 20-30$ for a phone number at 1rmb/500mb and the account is a simple form. Then if you have a nice bank account with fee free international withdraws you can convert money without fee by going to the atm, withdrawing, then…

Your experience was very different from mine - I had to have two Chinese locals sign as guarantors just to get a prepaid China Mobile plan. My bank account took two trips of 1-2 hours each. Both times I went with a native speaker, so it wasn't a language issue. It could be because I'm in a less developed city - can I ask where you were at?

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#77

Post by atr_gz » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

xster wrote: post #75

Since this is being used as a guide, it might be worth being pedantic and pointing out that it's the 'wrong' way of doing it. It definitely beats carrying cash but it's a 'second class citizen'-ish way of using mobile payment. The mechanism the OP used is the 'pocket change' system which, like its name suggest, can't be used everywhere. It's great for getting casual consummables, getting ice cream etc but doesn't wor…

I was under the impression that you need a residence permit of at least a year to open a bank account with a foreign passport. Have you had success with opening a bank account on a tourist visa?

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#78

Post by zavi » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

xster wrote: post #75

Since this is being used as a guide, it might be worth being pedantic and pointing out that it's the 'wrong' way of doing it. It definitely beats carrying cash but it's a 'second class citizen'-ish way of using mobile payment. The mechanism the OP used is the 'pocket change' system which, like its name suggest, can't be used everywhere. It's great for getting casual consummables, getting ice cream etc but doesn't wor…

This is false, you cannot open a bank account unless you live in China (work & residence proof required).

Source: just came back from China, went to a few banks and tried to open an account.

AliPay seems to now accept foreign debit cards though as a source of funding.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#79

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #15

Makes you wonder how the payment system in WeChat remains profitable if it's 100% free... do businesses have to pay a fee to withdraw?

I expect every system with free person-to-person transfers and free withdrawals/deposits for individuals is funded by charging businesses using it. PayPal is like this, Sweden's Swish mobile payments are like this, I'm sure there's many others.

Re: A foreigner's guide to WeChat payments in China

#80

Post by xster » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

atr_gz wrote: post #77

xster wrote: post #75

Since this is being used as a guide, it might be worth being pedantic and pointing out that it's the 'wrong' way of doing it. It definitely beats carrying cash but it's a 'second class citizen'-ish way of using mobile payment. The mechanism the OP used is the 'pocket change' system which, like its name suggest, can't be used everywhere. It's great for getting casual consummables, getting ice cream etc but doesn't wor…

I was under the impression that you need a residence permit of at least a year to open a bank account with a foreign passport. Have you had success with opening a bank account on a tourist visa?

Canadian passport, Q2 tourist visa, no address. Second day after landing. Though like many things in China YMMV.