Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common • Hacker News Board

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#201

Post by nunez » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #187

nunez wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I "managed" it long-term was by creating a spreadsheet of all of the things I really want (like, spent years wanting) and their costs, adding them up, buffering it a little and saying "that's my target number, and I'm sticking to it." Last time I did this, I calculated that $5M is my number. This would generate about $200k/year with 4% return and withdrawal rate. Everything I do in my career is centered aroun…

Aren’t those carpet cleaner rentals only $30 for 24-hours and at most home centers and grocers? I get wanting to have clean carpets, but I’d much rather rent and not have to deal with storing the thing, let alone buying it.

This machine works better than carpet cleaner rentals, can be used whenever I want (I used it this morning to quickly pick up cat vomit residue :( ) and I can install a tool that allows it to work on bare floors

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#202

Post by wonderwonder » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

ohithereyou wrote: post #193

nunez wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your parents are able to pay for your college tuition, you are provided with a much stronger launch pad. Ain't that the truth. I've spent 10 years at ~$1300/month paying my student loans down. I'm two years from done, but that would have been half a mortgage paid off! To be fair, though, I knew squat about personal finance coming out of college, so I probably would've burned the money some other way.

Quick back of the envelope calculation ($1300/month * 12 months/year * 12 years = $187,200) shows part of the problem - either college should not be necessary (we need a programmer's guild) or the cost of college is way too high.

I agree its way to high, at least programmers can hope for a well paying job eventually though. Imagine teachers or something similar. They get a degree to do something that society has a hard time going without (going to work is hard if I have no one to watch my kids) and then get a low salary and are told that they are being greedy and disruptive for going on strike to get raises.

We are also told from a young age that going to college is a requirement for getting a good job, perpetuating the cycle. Higher education has a great PR department.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#203

Post by supertrope » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #74

anoncoward111 wrote: post #4

Not even 200 years ago, most people exchanged labor for food. Currency was not used, as you most likely lived on the farm you worked for. There was no form of advancement to be seen, but also no rent, student loans, medical bills, child care etc. There was also no Whole Foods or freedom of speech. But how much farther have we really come in 2018? We have more things, but if you stop working, you will starve or go ill…

There's a big difference between Irish starvation in 1850 and the food insecurities of America in 2018. The former resulted in ~ 1 million deaths. The latter results in a ~17.5% drop in standardized math scores in affected children. The latter is definitely a massive problem, but we have made progress.

Yes. In a wealthy country an economic downturn means you lose your job. When things go bad in a poor country the proportion of people who can't afford food increases significantly.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#204

Post by geff82 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:09 PM UTC

nunez wrote: post #155

leoedin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". Income and expenses are intricately linked by psychology. It's almost irrelevant what your paycheck is, if you're prone to this problem then somehow expenses will always rise to meet it. If expenses weren't actually determined by payche…

> I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". This was a big reason that drove our move out of NYC. No matter how much you made, unless you were a billionaire (good luck with that), you were on a treadmill. Nothing you had would be enough. You could spend yourself broke trying to…

Dallas, while the wages are quite high, also has a lot lower cost of living. And the average person is nicer, too.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#205

Post by ianleeclark » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

cpwright wrote: post #183

ianleeclark wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. Not being able to afford basic necessities-in the most wealthy nation in the world-indicates something being broken.

I think the point is that living paycheck isn't indicative of not being able to afford basic necessities. It is the desire to spend most of your income on more than what are actually basic necessities.

No, that's absurd, and with the trend of depressed wages and increases in rent over the past few decades, workers wages are increasingly being stretched thin.

Moreover, I was responding to OP, specifically the conclusion I quoted and these two statements: > Living paycheck-to-paycheck can be representative of good choices being made (and I'd guess it is, in most cases).

and

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk,

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#206

Post by mynameishere » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #13

tjr225 wrote: post #2

"They work in big cities and rural towns. They’ve tried to save — but rent, child care, student loans and medical bills get in the way." Yikes. I'm not exactly living paycheck to paycheck, but I can relate to this. It's really funny - my wife and I make quite a bit of money - whatever twisted form of capitalism we currently live in has been designed in such a way to extract most of it away from us. One begins to wond…

It's human psychology. Below a certain level, your mind will simply talk itself into spending your available money to make you happy. You don't need that car. A car half the price would have been plenty good enough. But you did it anyhow. You don't need fancy breakfast cereal that costs twice what the generic stuff at Aldi costs. You don't need all those electronics and toys. You don't need to eat out that much. If y…

I must not be human.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#207

Post by supertrope » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

ianleeclark wrote: post #106

learnstats2 wrote: post #94

Living paycheck-to-paycheck can be representative of good choices being made (and I'd guess it is, in most cases). Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. People with limited resources are going to hit a barrier somewhere, and spending your income is often going to be the least bad bar…

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. Not being able to afford basic necessities-in the most wealthy nation in the world-indicates something being broken.

We live in a country where rewarding success and freedom to fail is more important than general welfare.

People who are excelling obviously endorse the status quo. But also many who are lagging also endorse it because they get to directly control their finances and think they will make it one day. To give an example, if the USA allowed individuals to opt out of Social Security, many would do so and then live out their senior years in penury.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#208

Post by usgroup » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

perfmode wrote: post #6

Don’t discount the weight of emotional trauma and the self-sabotaging habits it has the potential to engender. Most people are slaves to their limbic systems. Most people don’t have self-education or resources to seek the help they need to fix these underlying problems. Society does them no favors. Media and advertising are designed to promote consumption. And not even healthy consumption. The idea that we are black…

Thanks for sharing these thoughts. I appreciate you.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#209

Post by supertrope » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:15 PM UTC

cpwright wrote: post #183

ianleeclark wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. Not being able to afford basic necessities-in the most wealthy nation in the world-indicates something being broken.

I think the point is that living paycheck isn't indicative of not being able to afford basic necessities. It is the desire to spend most of your income on more than what are actually basic necessities.

There are many shades of gray between a new Escalade and living on rice and beans to due to medical debt.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#210

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

supertrope wrote: post #207

ianleeclark wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. Not being able to afford basic necessities-in the most wealthy nation in the world-indicates something being broken.

We live in a country where rewarding success and freedom to fail is more important than general welfare. People who are excelling obviously endorse the status quo. But also many who are lagging also endorse it because they get to directly control their finances and think they will make it one day. To give an example, if the USA allowed individuals to opt out of Social Security, many would do so and then live out thei…

[deleted]