Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common • Hacker News Board

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#131

Post by metabagel » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

ckdarby wrote: post #69

People rarely give the full picture of their situation in these articles. What an amazing time we live in where with just a name you can track down people's LinkedIn, their general location, etc. The couple in the article have just made financial decisions that are simply put, shitty. I assumed both pairs didn't have anything sorted out until they were 30 and outside of extreme medical debt, gambling debt, etc couldn…

"I assumed both pairs didn't have anything sorted out until they were 30"

I think it's the norm for people not to make much money in their 20s, particularly in southern California.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#132

Post by SmirkingRevenge » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

mac01021 wrote: post #124

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #28

As someone who didn't learn the very basics of personal finance at the optimal point in life, I feel like it should be part of our standardized education. I'd like to think that would make things at least marginally better. Another thing I'd love to see, would be for banks to fundamentally reorient themselves to be their customer's advocates/financial guardians, instead of being yet another party encouraging people t…

So, when you log into the Bank of America website, you want to be greeted every time with things like the following? "Dude, maybe you should sell this car that you're paying $450 per month for and get a $7000 used car." "Did you know that between starbucks and happy hour you spend an average of $120 per week, and that amounts to 10% of your take-home pay?" "You currently spend $2500 per month on rent. If you downsize…

Haha. Well, that would be marginally better than being greeted by:

Looks like you don't any savings. How about a new line of credit or a personal loan? The interest rates are microscopic!

(Literally, the rates are printed in microscopic text. Speaking of which... How about taking out a personal loan, to cover the cost of a shiny new microscope? Click here to get started!)

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#133

Post by vram22 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #38

leoedin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". Income and expenses are intricately linked by psychology. It's almost irrelevant what your paycheck is, if you're prone to this problem then somehow expenses will always rise to meet it. If expenses weren't actually determined by payche…

Huge difference between living paycheck to paycheck because you struggle to afford basic necessities and living paycheck to paycheck because you took out too large of a mortgage. In one case you have an asset to sell if needed.

>and living paycheck to paycheck because you took out too large of a mortgage. In one case you have an asset to sell if needed.

Did a lot of people wrongly (as it turned out) think that in the 2008 Great Recession?

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#134

Post by zeroonetwothree » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:26 PM UTC

49531 wrote: post #57

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #28

As someone who didn't learn the very basics of personal finance at the optimal point in life, I feel like it should be part of our standardized education. I'd like to think that would make things at least marginally better. Another thing I'd love to see, would be for banks to fundamentally reorient themselves to be their customer's advocates/financial guardians, instead of being yet another party encouraging people t…

You'll never have banks working in consumers self interest as long as they are profit driven organizations. Public banks tend to work better for actual sensible banking.

Banks don't want you to spend money. They want you to have as much in your account as possible. So it would be in their interest to encourage saving.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#135

Post by vailprogrammer » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

fromthestart wrote: post #83

vailprogrammer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? Someone born with mental problems is automatically an immoral, bad person? > Somehow other cultures tend to place virtue in the development of discipline, a personal responsibility which can mitigate all kinds of external erosions of self control. But what about all of the social safety ne…

>You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? You know nothing of my psychology or my personal struggles. It is infuriating to hear people tell me how easy I had it simply because now my parents are well off. Kindly take your classist prejudice elsewhere. My parents were lower middle class until about the time I went off to college.…

You're trying to say that both of your parents being college educated didn't provide you with any kind of advantage over someone born into poverty with uneducated parents? "Classist prejudice" is false?? Wealthier people, don't have an easier time growing up? Where is the disconnect there?

We're getting off track here. Upthread, you mentioned this negative minority who are unlucky and downtrodden. I countered that the majority of people in America are poor. I think that's something we could agree on? Some were unlucky, some were born into shitty situations, some made bad decisions. I want to know what you think all of those people should do to improve their situations? All 3 groups I mentioned. Just develop better self discipline and work harder? Genuinely curious. My contention is that the system is stacked against them, capitalism has swung too far in favor of Owners of Capital.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#136

Post by pavel_lishin » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #129

zeta0134 wrote: post #104

One of the simplest and most effective things I did recently was to split my bank account into two checking accounts, and one savings account. I carry two debit cards with me that are visually distinct. One is for day to day purchases, and the other is meant for bills and the occasional unusual expense, like maybe tools for a surprise home repair. Each time I get paid (every two weeks) I have my employer deposit the…

Carrying a debit card (at least by the american definition of "debit card", other countries may have more sane CC security) is a risk in itself -- if you lose the card (or just the number), then your bank account can be wiped out before you can stop it, then you'll start bouncing checks. And since you have a card for each account, they can wipe out your savings too, making it harder to replenish your checking account…

Presumably, neither debit card is linked to the savings account.

And the whole point of that split is that there is no large amount of money in either checking account at any given point. If someone takes zeta0134's "fun budget" for a two weeks, it shouldn't be any more of a ding than a extravagant night out.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#137

Post by metabagel » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

fromthestart wrote: post #83

vailprogrammer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? Someone born with mental problems is automatically an immoral, bad person? > Somehow other cultures tend to place virtue in the development of discipline, a personal responsibility which can mitigate all kinds of external erosions of self control. But what about all of the social safety ne…

>You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? You know nothing of my psychology or my personal struggles. It is infuriating to hear people tell me how easy I had it simply because now my parents are well off. Kindly take your classist prejudice elsewhere. My parents were lower middle class until about the time I went off to college.…

"You know nothing of my psychology or my personal struggles."

For someone lacking in empathy, you played the victim card really quickly here.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#138

Post by digianarchist » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #34

cagenut wrote: post #12

the trifecta of: student loan debt + mortgage debt + employer based health insurance, is clearly just a bundled and packaged form of indentured servitude.

The first and last yes absolutely, though aim a conservative Brit and how Americans reconcile themselves to your health insurance (or lack of it) system really baffles me. Mortgages aren’t as clear cut. Our mortgages have been the backbone of my family’s current financial security. After all the idea is at the end you own your house. Interest only mortgages not so much of course and it requires that the house ends up…

Student loan debt is also not nearly as burdensome for the borrower in the UK has in the United States.

The UK basically operates a graduate tax system [1].

[1] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/28418590/understanding...

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#139

Post by zeta0134 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #129

zeta0134 wrote: post #104

One of the simplest and most effective things I did recently was to split my bank account into two checking accounts, and one savings account. I carry two debit cards with me that are visually distinct. One is for day to day purchases, and the other is meant for bills and the occasional unusual expense, like maybe tools for a surprise home repair. Each time I get paid (every two weeks) I have my employer deposit the…

Carrying a debit card (at least by the american definition of "debit card", other countries may have more sane CC security) is a risk in itself -- if you lose the card (or just the number), then your bank account can be wiped out before you can stop it, then you'll start bouncing checks. And since you have a card for each account, they can wipe out your savings too, making it harder to replenish your checking account…

These are perfectly valid risks, and I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted! Good considerations all around. I mitigate a large portion of this by having the bulk of my funds in savings at any given time, more than enough to cover what would be in bills / spending in case of an emergency like this. I do not carry a card that can pull from savings with a card swipe, so a card thief would at the very least need to coerce the PIN out of me under duress, after which I would hopefully manage to contact my bank before they did too much damage.

Of course, a better mitigation would probably be to set up two-factor on the card. Chip and PIN is supposed to protect against this, but in my experience so far, merchants that don't support it get away with a "credit" swipe and a signature, mitigating the security benefits of requiring the pin in debit mode. This is a good critique of the system I've set up, and I'll do some research and see if I can lock it down to deal with these risks properly.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#140

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

metabagel wrote: post #131

ckdarby wrote: post #69

People rarely give the full picture of their situation in these articles. What an amazing time we live in where with just a name you can track down people's LinkedIn, their general location, etc. The couple in the article have just made financial decisions that are simply put, shitty. I assumed both pairs didn't have anything sorted out until they were 30 and outside of extreme medical debt, gambling debt, etc couldn…

"I assumed both pairs didn't have anything sorted out until they were 30" I think it's the norm for people not to make much money in their 20s, particularly in southern California.

There is plenty of opportunity to make money in 20s though, so I can only blame a lack of research (assuming one knows how to read English and has access to the internet).

If you’re smart, you can go the MD or STEM route and end up in tech or finance, or if you can get into a target law school that feed into well paying NYC/SF firms. If you can’t do that, then electricians, plumbers, and mechanics make a decent amount starting very young. If you give up your 20s in SoCal, you better be doing something to hit the ground running fast with $150k+ pay.

However, if you sacrifice your 20s obtaining skills no one wants to pay for, then yes, you will not make much in your 20s.