Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common • Hacker News Board

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#61

Post by vailprogrammer » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

fromthestart wrote: post #54

vailprogrammer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sob stories about people who spent half their lives pursuing 3 uneconomical degrees, had 3 more kids than they could afford, in cities with some of the highest costs of living in the world, and now complain that they're living paycheck to paycheck. So the person who .... - never attended any sort of college, but did graduate high school - is single and childless, in fact have no family at all as their parents died…

There will always be those who are unlucky and downtrodden. The point though is that media like these focus exclusively on this negative minority and exaggerate the negativity of the status quo. My parents are first generation immigrants who fled the Soviet Bloc and built their lives here by living within their means, and making practical decisions, like getting degrees with some probability of return on investment.…

> media like these focus exclusively on this negative minority and exaggerate the negativity of the status quo.

Can you expand on 'this negative minority' ? Because I think there are a lot more poor people than 'upper middle class' people in this country.

> I have little sympathy for people who consistently plan poorly and make bad decisions

Why not? Self control isn't some moral, righteousness, trait. To possess a certain level of self control, is to be lucky in its own right. Turns out its generally dictated by the Pre Frontal Cortex. And when that gets damaged (whether via head injury, lead poisoning as a child, malnourishment, any number of reasons), people lose self control: https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/6/720

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#62

Post by kurthr » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #38

leoedin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". Income and expenses are intricately linked by psychology. It's almost irrelevant what your paycheck is, if you're prone to this problem then somehow expenses will always rise to meet it. If expenses weren't actually determined by payche…

Huge difference between living paycheck to paycheck because you struggle to afford basic necessities and living paycheck to paycheck because you took out too large of a mortgage. In one case you have an asset to sell if needed.

Often that debt is spread out on 5 different credit cards and there is no asset to sell other than shoes (a favorite of both genders) or lifestyle "influence".

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#63

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#64

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #56

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except when it is. Generalities aren't helpful to the single parent working retail. Expenses aren't always optional.

In the vast majority of cases having a child is optional. This perfectly illustrates the problem the GP brings up. People have no concept of what agency is.

Oh for God's sake. Have a child, get dumped/divorced, now you're a single parent. Parents are supposed to be omniscient? God already has a job (and parenting didn't work out so good then either)

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#65

Post by perfmode » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

gamma-male wrote: post #50

leoedin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". Income and expenses are intricately linked by psychology. It's almost irrelevant what your paycheck is, if you're prone to this problem then somehow expenses will always rise to meet it. If expenses weren't actually determined by payche…

Better: not being paid enough is a sufficient condition, but it is not required. Of course rich people can have such problem, but if you think low wages and the lack of universal health care and free education is not the main issue you are lying to yourself.

Totally. Health care and education can be preventative.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#66

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #2

"They work in big cities and rural towns. They’ve tried to save — but rent, child care, student loans and medical bills get in the way." Yikes. I'm not exactly living paycheck to paycheck, but I can relate to this. It's really funny - my wife and I make quite a bit of money - whatever twisted form of capitalism we currently live in has been designed in such a way to extract most of it away from us. One begins to wond…

> It's really funny - my wife and I make quite a bit of money - whatever twisted form of capitalism we currently live in has been designed in such a way to extract most of it away from us.

I think it's evolved, not designed. A (arguably the) key element of capitalism is that a dollar extracted from an individual transaction is a dollar that can buy capital to scale up the extraction. That means exponential (actually logistic, I suppose) growth scaling with how much an entity can extract.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#67

Post by ip26 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #13

tjr225 wrote: post #2

"They work in big cities and rural towns. They’ve tried to save — but rent, child care, student loans and medical bills get in the way." Yikes. I'm not exactly living paycheck to paycheck, but I can relate to this. It's really funny - my wife and I make quite a bit of money - whatever twisted form of capitalism we currently live in has been designed in such a way to extract most of it away from us. One begins to wond…

It's human psychology. Below a certain level, your mind will simply talk itself into spending your available money to make you happy. You don't need that car. A car half the price would have been plenty good enough. But you did it anyhow. You don't need fancy breakfast cereal that costs twice what the generic stuff at Aldi costs. You don't need all those electronics and toys. You don't need to eat out that much. If y…

The "funny" part I think would be how rent, child care, student loans and medical bills tend to scale in cost to your locale, so despite your well paid job, your cost of living has gone up to match. It might be expected & natural for that to happen, but it's still kind of... "funny" if you look at it from a certain angle.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#68

Post by simonh » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #9

anoncoward111 wrote: post #4

Not even 200 years ago, most people exchanged labor for food. Currency was not used, as you most likely lived on the farm you worked for. There was no form of advancement to be seen, but also no rent, student loans, medical bills, child care etc. There was also no Whole Foods or freedom of speech. But how much farther have we really come in 2018? We have more things, but if you stop working, you will starve or go ill…

Definitely true in america. In countries such as the netherlands, if you lose your job, you get up to 38 months of 70% salary, rent benefits, child care benefits, and of course your illness will still be treated.

Brit, but basically the same here. The country loses out when people fall into debt and become unproductive for economic or health reasons. Failing to safeguard the productivity of your economy and citizenry in this way isn’t capitalist, or conservative particularly. It’s on a different axis, that particularly in the USA has become associated with the political right. That’s not inevitable or necessary though.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#69

Post by ckdarby » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

People rarely give the full picture of their situation in these articles.

What an amazing time we live in where with just a name you can track down people's LinkedIn, their general location, etc.

The couple in the article have just made financial decisions that are simply put, shitty.

I assumed both pairs didn't have anything sorted out until they were 30 and outside of extreme medical debt, gambling debt, etc couldn't find out how they're living pay to pay without sheer irresponsibility.

They're living in a place they can't afford. They need to get rid of their second car or work with the flexible schedule the SO has to drive him to work.

Lani needs to pick up another gig, she explains the work isn't consist, great, Uber the hours you're missing.

These articles remind me that we are our greatest enemy, not the situations we're put in but how we function in those situations.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#70

Post by kurthr » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

gamma-male wrote: post #50

leoedin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the very fact that people in wildly different circumstances are living paycheck to paycheck is a huge flag that this isn't as simple a problem as "they don't get paid enough". Income and expenses are intricately linked by psychology. It's almost irrelevant what your paycheck is, if you're prone to this problem then somehow expenses will always rise to meet it. If expenses weren't actually determined by payche…

Better: not being paid enough is a sufficient condition, but it is not required. Of course rich people can have such problem, but if you think low wages and the lack of universal health care and free education is not the main issue you are lying to yourself.

Yes, just as we can subsidize human and societal needs with the tax code, we can do it directly. Food, healthcare, post highschool education...