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Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We the people of the United States of America elect the people that write the laws. If we don't like what they're doing, vote them out and vote in people that will write the laws we want.

To do that should I vote Democrat, Republican or Independent?

[deleted]

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We the people of the United States of America elect the people that write the laws. If we don't like what they're doing, vote them out and vote in people that will write the laws we want.

To do that should I vote Democrat, Republican or Independent?

> should I vote Democrat, Republican or Independent?

You should vote in your jurisdictions’ meaningful primaries, get involved with campaigns and causes that represent you and organise like-minded citizens.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#23
post #11
post #3

I worked at Marsh from 2005-2015 in both corporate and the store. We were always skeptical of Sun, the CEOs that would cycle through didn't grasp the basics of grocery, and as an organization we failed to invest in basic infrastructure that would reduce our overall costs which are huge in the 2% margin grocery business. At the store we had registers with an OS from the 80's, a common thing if you look around, but we…

I wonder how much of that was politicking, where someone was keeping something purposefully bad so that they could sell a solution that "saves so much money" when a far cheaper solution would save as much money and cost way less.

I saw this a bunch in my next job after Marsh, which was analytics consulting. I'm not sure about Marsh doing this (at least internally), but who knows with Sun.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#24
post #20

Defined benefit pension plans create a huge moral hazard and are just too risky for employees, employers, and taxpayers alike. As a society we should be aggressively phasing out pensions and replacing them with defined contribution plans like 401(k) and 403(b). That way each employee's retirement funds are in an individual named account held by a brokerage and can't be taken away. Even if your employer goes bankrupt,…

So, we had something like that in NL for self employed people that have their own holding company ("pensioen in eigen beheer"). That got axed because 'reasons' and your options to save your pension for the future got changed into 'deal with these large corporations', or pay your higher bracket income tax today and hope the money you save will be worth something by the time you need it.

I'm doing the latter and dumping it all into real estate, that seems to be the best bet at the moment.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#25
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of that was politicking, where someone was keeping something purposefully bad so that they could sell a solution that "saves so much money" when a far cheaper solution would save as much money and cost way less.

Sometimes companies maintain high friction/high cost crap like that to scare off acquisition. A friend worked for a regional bank that had a strategy of purposeful obsolescence to maintain control with the core shareholders, who were mostly from one family. They were using 1980s era AS/400 systems with terminals as late as 2008, and had only 1 PC assigned to a manager in the branches, with connectivity via ISDN.

I hadn't thought of this to be honest, but I do faintly remember the IT / Dev team using the "not technically feasible" line a bunch whenever Marketing would come through with stuff. Used to get me angry quite a bit and I saw it translate a bunch to lost revenue and increased costs.

I don't know how much of this got sent out of Marsh and up to Sun though.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#26
post #17

This kind of thing is horribly common in declining firms - a last minute attempt to asset-strip everything of value and transfer it out of the corporate entity, which can then go bankrupt, stiffing creditors and employees. See also Radio Shack, Toys R Us, Maplin, and British Home Stores: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/28/philip-gree... (The astonishing thing there is that somehow the thief was shamed i…

His knighthood was likely worth the £363m.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#27
To me the bigger culprit is the unfunded pension as a tool of retirement planning. Unfunded pensions are failing or on the brink of failing almost everywhere they are tried. It's a huge scandal and deeply immoral IMO. I read the other day that NYC alone has over $100bn in unfunded pension liabilities. There is simply no budget to pay that down. Unfunded pensions taking down numerous economies in Europe.

There is a county in Georgia (Sandy Springs) that effectively went private. Rather than offering a state pension to their employees (other than ones they were legally required to), they calculated the value of the pension contribution they would make and simply tacked it on to employee salaries. I personally think this is a good approach (with some room for incentives that help protect people from themselves).

Note: not trying to mount a defense of PE - often people ask what is the purpose/role or value of PE in society. In a somewhat perverted sense, this is it. There are not many mechanisms that can almost instantly re-habilitate an enterprise that was mismanaged or made severely consequential long term false promises to employees. The alternative is a slow, timely and painful decline similar to Sears or Kmart and rather than this article we'd be reading articles about the towns that Marsh left behind.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#28
post #4

Still amazing to me that owners and equity firms get money before pension funds. The literal theft - a pension is part of your income, and being able to sell off a company without paying off pension debts literally means retroactively stealing wages from workers. Remember that banks, etc all have insurance on their debt, apparently that doesn’t matter - companies are simply stealing from money that is not theirs, and…

The government does the same thing with SS. If you pass away before collecting benefits, those benefits aren't passed on to those who inherit your estate.

[deleted]

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We the people of the United States of America elect the people that write the laws. If we don't like what they're doing, vote them out and vote in people that will write the laws we want.

To do that should I vote Democrat, Republican or Independent?

Depends on if you want the government to expand, expand a lot, or dissolve.

Re: Companies controlled by PE firms use bankruptcy to shed pension obligations

#30
Just another illustration that the "America" you learned about is not the America™ we live in. As a parent I find it more and more difficult to try to teach my kids the reality of America without sounding like a conspiracy theory nut job. I do not want my kids growing up with blindly trusting that any institution (schools, corporations, government, etc.) have their best interests in mind. In a way I feel like selling them the "dream" is much less painful but I would feel like I failed as a parent to not warn my kids of the realities of the world.
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