Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise • Hacker News Board

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#121

Post by porlune » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

signal11 wrote: post #46

eganist wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a Kamikaze effort, really. Enough NIMBY automation and future complaints will be as effective as no complaints at all.

Even before this, researchers have noticed that a few people generate a disproportionate number of noise complaints (both links from 2016): US: https://www.mercatus.org/publications/airport-noise-nimbyism UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37803205 (half of the around 25,000 complaints were made by 10 people) I wonder if these people are more susceptible to noise than others, or are simply more tolerant of / m…

I think some people just have a lower threshold for some of this behavior by business that profits while making those around them uncomfortable.

Case in point: I absolutely despise the fact that I have to pick up after a company because they want to throw their free newspapers and advertisements on my lawn and entryway.

Someone even clipped a flyer to my window one wet morning, an it completely adhered to the glass.

Yet this behavior is literally permitted by my local government, which handed these outfits permits for their planned activities.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#122

Post by sargun » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 5:52 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #117

happertiger wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. If you live near an airport the disclosure is required by law if you buy a house in the are. However, it doesn’t preclude expansion and changes. If for example your airport moves from 12 hour a day to round-the-clock flights... nothing you can do. It’s a sticky wicket.

Cities should of course be building airports outside of the city!

Doesn’t this somewhat defeat the purpose of the airport?

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#123

Post by chihuahua » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 5:55 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #68

One of my pet genius ideas that will never happen is to reserve prime housing areas near airports for the deaf.

Your idea is correct: According to mainstream economic theory, the invisible hand of the free market has already resulted in areas near airports being inhabited exclusively by the deaf.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#124

Post by chihuahua » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 5:58 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #119

socialist_coder wrote: post #44

Another aspect to this problem is that the vast majority of houses in the US are made as cheaply as possible, and that means walls with very little mass and sound absorption. If you had something like concrete walls like is typical for Germany, the plane noise would barely register.

Houses in close proxmity airports can be designed to help minimize the noise -- I know someone that built a house in the flight path for SFO, so he used triple pane glass windows, clay roof tiles instead of the more typical asphalt shingles, some sort of soundproofing insulation in the attic, heavy solid wood exterior doors (with tight weatherstripping) among other things. Apparently the home builders in that area kn…

I once stayed at an airport hotel in Zurich, Switzerland, and I was amazed that while there was a direct view of the runway from the room, you could not tell there was a plane taking off a few hundred meters away. I didn't think it was possible.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#125

Post by adrr » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 5:59 AM UTC

Carpetsmoker wrote: post #80

cyberferret wrote: post #23

Just wondering if these devices are only issued to people who had houses in that area before the airport was built. IMO if you knowingly purchase a residence under a flight path, you lose any privilege of complaining about the noise. Modern aviation is already far quieter, and there are plenty of regulations in place to minimise the noise footprint (e.g. modern fanjet engines are far quieter than the older turbojets,…

> if you knowingly purchase a residence under a flight path, you lose any privilege of complaining about the noise. Honestly, this line really grinds my gears. Let me explain: First, people don't always know. Actually I think people frequently don't know. It's not like estate/rental agents are known for their outstanding honesty. Also remember that the loudness and frequency of air travel can change a lot . An airpla…

Sounds like something technology can solve. Service that you can pay to find out noise pollution and other nuisances for a given address.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#126

Post by chii » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:05 AM UTC

sargun wrote: post #122

chii wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities should of course be building airports outside of the city!

Doesn’t this somewhat defeat the purpose of the airport?

Not if they could put in good mass transit to and from the airport.

Airports, like heavy industries, should be outside the city limits, away from populations.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#127

Post by picklebutt » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

binarycrusader wrote: post #87

c54 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your example especially since it’s something you couldn’t really have looked up beforehand. Imagine searching “raves til 5am in my area” But flight paths are a known known. Maps exist. Noise level maps exist. Airport locations, runway directions, departing and arriving flight paths (and altitudes!) all exist. Caveat emptor, you got a “good deal” on a house because it’s in a loud area. If you cared about…

Flight paths change sometimes. Airports expand, etc.

Not really, runways are really expensive, long, wide roads, they may get lengthened slightly or have safety devices installed on the ends but their location is so fixed that few have changed since they were built, and most were built during the war years.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#128

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:17 AM UTC

Carpetsmoker wrote: post #80

cyberferret wrote: post #23

Just wondering if these devices are only issued to people who had houses in that area before the airport was built. IMO if you knowingly purchase a residence under a flight path, you lose any privilege of complaining about the noise. Modern aviation is already far quieter, and there are plenty of regulations in place to minimise the noise footprint (e.g. modern fanjet engines are far quieter than the older turbojets,…

> if you knowingly purchase a residence under a flight path, you lose any privilege of complaining about the noise. Honestly, this line really grinds my gears. Let me explain: First, people don't always know. Actually I think people frequently don't know. It's not like estate/rental agents are known for their outstanding honesty. Also remember that the loudness and frequency of air travel can change a lot . An airpla…

Ok, I am a former pilot, so I guess that my knowledge of the runway directions, and approach paths, extent of the circuit area etc. are at the forefront of my mind when I am in a new city.

I know friends that buy property according to how close the nearest coffee shop/cafe is. Not being a coffee drinker, I couldn't care less about that fact - but I know what I need for a comfortable, sane life, and noise abatement is a major factor, which is why I am always looking out for things like train lines, highways and flight paths - even when I am booking an Air BnB for a short holiday stay.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#129

Post by onetimemanytime » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

Airports aren't going away.

Engine makers aren't making them any quieter, laws of physics and time (airplanes in service for decades)

Airplanes have to follow a certain path and certain procedures, for example they can't land like helicopters from 30,000 feet.

So for the people that bought cheaper homes near an airports, it sucks, but get used to it (other than a rare case when the plane deviated from standard procedure). Maybe they'll make complaint filing manual.

Re: Button offers instant gratification for those plagued by airplane noise

#130

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:20 AM UTC

binarycrusader wrote: post #87

c54 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your example especially since it’s something you couldn’t really have looked up beforehand. Imagine searching “raves til 5am in my area” But flight paths are a known known. Maps exist. Noise level maps exist. Airport locations, runway directions, departing and arriving flight paths (and altitudes!) all exist. Caveat emptor, you got a “good deal” on a house because it’s in a loud area. If you cared about…

Flight paths change sometimes. Airports expand, etc.

Airport expansion, or addition of new runways etc. are usually a tediously long process, and usually with a lot of community feedback and approval etc. (at least, here in Australia it is). Not something that can happen overnight without anyone knowing.

Flight path changes are more common. But then again, those are usually departure pathways. The worst noise issues are on final approach or on the takeoff run on runway heading, which rarely change. Most turning points are above 1000ft AGL where the noise levels are a lot less.