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How the Valley treats experienced people

rachelbythebay.com

281–290 of 508 posts

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Higher bar, paying less" seems a strange choice, though.

My experience on the hiring manager side suggests that when that happens, what's usually going on is that the experienced dev failed to meet the higher (level 3) bar but seemed like they'd be a solid individual contributor at level 2, and therefore received a SWE2/PR2/Foo2 offer. In other words, "same [lower than they expected] bar, same [lower than they expected] salary" as someone 2-3 years in industry.

The questions being asked have nothing to do with solving the types of problems that my experience is indicative of, or of the teams/projects/products I've lead. Nor are they types of questions that even measure for engineer work experience and how they approach solving the types of real world problems that 10 minutes of white boarding a bit counting and funky array manipulations alg won't show. They are questions that are really catered towards recent grads who that I haven't think about or practice since college, and then not getting the job because of that is strange to me. Especially when they could be asking me interesting real-world technical stuff like on multi-threading, concurrency vs parallelism, performance optimization, more solution architecture are parts of the tech stack, project management, team managements, hiring strategies, dealing with low performers, etc. It's also humorous when companies aren't doing anything technically sophisticated, yet their interviewing like they are, for example doing NLP through third-party APIs, or when the most sophisticated part of their stack is using two caching solutions with Mem-Cache and Redis, or just writing APIs the read/write to and from a couple different data storage, systems, etc.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#282
post #105

Living and working in the Boston tech market, I have a lot of thoughts about Ageism. It's very much alive and well here. There's also a severe case of Elitism if you didn't go to MIT or Harvard, too. I'd like to think more about this and write dome some elegant thoughts, but... I'll sum it up as it's a little humbling but massively humiliating. It's extremely frustrated being interviewed by people with obviously way…

> I'm pretty sure many companies hiring is explicitly catered to aging people out, or at least setting a different bar for older engineers. > Also, when I do get a job offer it's for quite a bit lower salary that much younger, less experienced people who are two or three years out of school are making in this market. Which is it? Do you want an older engineer to have the same hiring bar and same compensation or a hig…

I think the older engineer can do things a lot differently than the younger. Maybe it's that there's so many people with two years dev experience now who are considered Senior level, even though they have little people management and actual team lead experience, and can't appropriate scope project, break them up, mentor people up, etc.?

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll then go check salaries using a job hunting site for the same positions in SV and they pay the same or less after adjusting for cost of living That's the problem. Salaries on job hunting sites are wildly inaccurate. Glassdoor lists FANG compensation as 2-3x less than what they actually pay. Also, the important metric isn't COL adjusted income; it's the total amount of money that's left over to save/invest after…

I made the move to the Bay Area with a family in my 30s. It’s not perfect, but we’re saving dramatically more than we could anywhere else. I don’t know how long we’ll stay, but at this rate 5 years would be enough to set us up really well almost anywhere else in the US. I wish I’d gotten into software sooner. If you come out here at 22, live with roommates and stay until you’re 30, you probably take anywhere from $40…

Spending your entire life as a young adult doing that sounds dystopian. May that never become the norm.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#284
post #152
post #68

Sometimes you don't make enough money to retire early from a combination of bad luck and poor financial decisions. In my career, I followed a pattern of going to a company just a bit too late to get the really low priced options. I've ended up with dozens of former co-workers who are multimillionaires. I had a family and was (in hindsight) too conservative about when I went to a company. I also was a "paper" milliona…

If you are ever in a similar situation you might want to look at what Mark Cuban did to manage this risk - described here: http://investmentxyz.blogspot.com/2006/05/cubans-collar-anat...

That wouldn't have helped at all. Marks hedge would have not worked if, say, yahoo tanked for specific reasons such as discovered fraud or something along those lines - where the rest of the tech market was unaffected.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction between valley culture and everywhere else is never made in these pieces which is a pity. I work in fortune 500s and we’re all 40+ in these companies. I rarely see 20s.

I too work in a fortune 500 outside the valley. Occasionally I wonder why we lose so many young coders good and bad to SV. I'll then go check salaries using a job hunting site for the same positions in SV and they pay the same or less after adjusting for cost of living. Is there some magic pool of jobs there that let you retired after 10 years that I am not seeing? I'm coming up on 20 years of writing c++ and I'm not…

People end up in non-tech business roles, technology verticals or in other places.

For good or ill, people tend to fall out of the funnel as they hop from job to job.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#286
post #249
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s an element of expectation there. The college hire might grow to be a grand wizard in 10 years, and become a massive asset to the company. It is still possible the older person is going to become a wizard later, but the question is: if they have it in them, why aren’t they a wizard already? College hires are seen as unscratched lottery tickets, older workers are seen as known variables. I’m not saying…

who stays at a company for 10 years?

Unfortunately I might fall in this category. I am a Sr level manager/influencer at a Dow 30. Ex-programmer. Been there 7 years. I just got accepted at kellogg emba. So unless I switch jobs after 1 year I will be this guy.

One of the reason i got stuck is that 3 years into my job; my ex-VPs, who are both CTOs now, asked me to build cloud based eCommerce platform for this top 5 online retailer.

where i was I charge of digital transformation for the entire online space except the infrastructure.

This was 3 year journey. That put it into 6+ year mark.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't think I'm in te proper situation to do it. In my experience there are two kinds of pre-kid people: those who aren't ready for it and those who lie about being ready for it.

I've heard this before, but there is something to be said about the difference between someone having kids at the start of their careers when they have little to no savings, and several years (hell, a decade) into their careers when they have high paying jobs with good stay-at-home policy, lots of money in the bank, perhaps a house. I grew up in situation 1 (teen pregnancy) and it is fascinating to talk with my frien…

Its funny how much life is staked against with a family. especially if one or both of you don't have a college degree. school hours aren't set up for jobs. A lot of companies don't tolerate sick kids. daycare is beyond expensive. health care for families is just impossible. Most people don't have enough savings to make a dent.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#288
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is still possible the older person is going to become a wizard later, but the question is: if they have it in them, why aren’t they a wizard already? The vast majority of coders are not and will never be a "wizard". And that's OK. You can still be valuable to a company if you aren't a recent college graduate or a wizard. Edit: also, be ready to pay through the nose for any actual wizard you want to hire. They ca…

My experience over 25 years suggests that wizards can readily command 1.5-2x and deliver beyond 10x. If you can find and engage them, they're one of the best semi-secret bargains in tech.

Every "wizard" I know makes 500k-1mil, some in all salary. I guess that's 1.5-2x some places.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds discriminatory against ppl who don't have kids and are over 40. 'work to death when you are young or raise family when you are old' is not a good 'value', imo. Your employer shouldn't have some 'values' about what you do outside work.

> Sounds discriminatory against ppl who don't have kids and are over 40. The economy ceases to exist if, in the long run, couples don't have at least 2.1 kids on average. People are free to not have kids, of course, but having them serves an essential social function and it's not "discriminatory" to have values that accommodate that.

Accommodating employees with kids is great. Discriminating against people who don't have kids is wrong, and illegal.

For what it's worth, the first 2 startups I was a founder of in Silicon Valley had a bunch of founders with kids.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might have misunderstood the suggestion. Giving people enough time to manage a family is different from giving more time to people who have families. An employer might prefer having employees with children for a variety of reason and mostly would treat "family benefits" as method to hire older more experienced people.

> An employer might prefer having employees with children Isn't this straight up illegal? Only straight ppl can have children, for example.

I have several gay friends with children.

But yes, at least in California it's illegal to even ask if people have children in interviews.

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