Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 216 posts

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#161

Post by sjwright »

gaius wrote: post #152
sjwright wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the NHS have catchment areas? Surely you should be allowed to visit any GP anywhere. People do travel after all.

Surely you should be allowed to visit any GP anywhere A GP practice is a private business, usually all the GPs are partners just as lawyers or accountants would be, and the staff such as receptionists are not NHS employees, they work for the practice. If they can't bill the NHS for their services because you're not on their books, they aren't interested. It is surprising perhaps, but many people in the UK are unaware…

Right, but why are private practices artificially limited for whom they can bill the NHS? That seems like pointless, unnecessary bureaucracy that comes back to bite them with more A&E visits.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#162

Post by chaosite »

code_duck wrote: post #158
DoreenMichele wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a healthcare system within the US where billing seems to mostly not happen. So, presumably, it isn't completely alien and foreign and something America would need to steal from elsewhere.

That’s decidedly not my experience. I’ve certainly been presented with bills for every single thing I’ve done at a hospital, including visits that I was assured I would not be billed for. I’ve even spent months trying to work out arrangements with hospitals and insurance only to have my bills sent to collections. The thousands of people who file bankruptcy each year for medical bills would likely wonder what you mean…

Note the part where she said she was a military wife.

That is, the healthcare system she's talking about is the one provided to members of the military.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#163

Post by marcinzm »

chobeat wrote: post #149
jdminhbg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solved by not allowing money to enter the circle. This is not possible without socializing the entire economy. At some point, you have to pay doctors, nurses, staff, equipment manufacturers, etc.

If they are public employees, they have sort of a standardized salary coming straight from the healthcare ministry/department/whatever where the specific hospital just administer the HR part. You still think in a for profit manner, where healthcare in most countries is not a for-profit endeavour. As long as it works, it's fine, even if it's a net negative. You try to limit the money you waste and inefficiencies, but…

>You still think in a for profit manner, where healthcare in most countries is not a for-profit endeavour.

And in the US it's not.

Assuming that you can simply remake a massive chunk of the economy (hospitals, doctors, nurses, clinics, etc, etc) to be government owned is silly. People will protest, lobbyists will be paid and it won't happen. If your only solution to the problems people point out is essentially magic then, no, it's not a valid solution.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#164

Post by shagie »

LeonB wrote: post #76

My neighbor’s son is a doctor who needed some software written. He learned to write the software and now runs a software business (in addition to being a doctor). I guess it was easier than trying to bring developers in. Ive seen the same thing with a pilot who learned programming to write an incident management system for airlines. Only once the software was successful did he seek advice from ‘professionals’. Learni…

One of the things that worries me about the not quite professional developing software of this nature is does it actually follow the regulations and restrictions that medical software needs to follow. HIPAA is not an easy thing to navigate and has deep implications on how data itself is stored.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#165

Post by mikeash »

hvindin wrote: post #122
analog31 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I'm being naieve, but could we just get rid of billing altogether if we nationalize the health care system? I have to recount an anecdote. My mom was hiking in a foreign country, and got injured. She hobbled to the next town, and found a clinic. They treated her and were ready to let her go. She said: Q: Okay, how do I pay? A: You don't pay for health care. Q: I'm American. I'm not part of your health care s…

As an Australian I always struggle with the idea that healthcare would cost money above a couple of dollars for things that aren't essential. But almost every American I've ever spoken to who hasn't experienced decent national healthcare seem to have a bizzare view that "if it's free then obviously it will be abused", not realising that it's just as open to abuse as a system where end customer are also involved becau…

There is a massive propaganda machine pushing against any sort of universal health care here. The idea that not everyone deserves care is definitely one of the angles they push. Another angle is that socialized medicine is garbage, a view which tends to confuse people who have lived with it.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#166

Post by marcinzm »

SolarNet wrote: post #93
ams6110 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody will be paying, and will want adequate and auditable documentation about what they are paying for. The potential for fraud is too great. Medicare and states all have to watch for fraud in their claim payments.

Sure, but adequate and auditable documentation need not involve the patient nor money. Just a "here is the medical care we dispersed, on this date, to this person, it took these resources, these people administered the care." No following up every record for payments, no arguing with insurance companies over the price. And also, what abuse? If medical care is free and drugs are cheap, the only real abuse is drug abus…

>Sure, but adequate and auditable documentation need not involve the patient nor money.

Since almost all healthcare in the US is private (hospitals, doctors, clinics, etc.) then, yes, it needs to involve money since all those entities will want to get paid. And, no, the government can't take it all over since everyone will fight it (and win).

>Just a "here is the medical care we dispersed, on this date, to this person, it took these resources, these people administered the care." No following up every record for payments, no arguing with insurance companies over the price.

This is basically existing medical billing without the follow through (what was done, why, when and by whom). Not sure why you think money (ie: paying hospitals, doctors, etc.) needs to be removed from the equation for it to work.

>The only reason there is medicare fraud to worry about right now is because not everyone is supposed to be on it, the "fraud" is attempting to get free health care. Which wouldn't exist if everyone had it.

Fraud is also doctors, hospitals, etc. billing for things they didn't do or didn't need to do.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#167

Post by philtar »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #119
dmix wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, how is this relevant to what the OP comment posted? I don't follow...

We already have a healthcare system within the US where billing seems to mostly not happen. So, presumably, it isn't completely alien and foreign and something America would need to steal from elsewhere.

I find your anecdote a little difficult to balance with the stories of all the vets who need medical treatment but can't get it.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#168

Post by gdubs »

This is the Design Thinking approach IDEO pioneered and continues to pursue. It’s also how Apple approached their retail store, for instance, by composing a team made up not just of the designers, but also people who worked in retail on the ground floor and understood the reality of the problem they were solving.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#169

Post by code_duck »

chaosite wrote: post #162
code_duck wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s decidedly not my experience. I’ve certainly been presented with bills for every single thing I’ve done at a hospital, including visits that I was assured I would not be billed for. I’ve even spent months trying to work out arrangements with hospitals and insurance only to have my bills sent to collections. The thousands of people who file bankruptcy each year for medical bills would likely wonder what you mean…

Note the part where she said she was a military wife. That is, the healthcare system she's talking about is the one provided to members of the military.

I see. I may as well add now, that’s roughly the experience I have receiving care in my home state with Medicaid. The people at the state even said I should never be presented with any sort of bill. Out of state, though, it’s been more difficult to arrange as hospitals in other states may or may not be able to bill my Medicaid, restricted either by lack of agreements or competence.

Re: Doctors ask engineers to spend more time in the hospital before building apps

#170

Post by gaius »

sjwright wrote: post #161
gaius wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you should be allowed to visit any GP anywhere A GP practice is a private business, usually all the GPs are partners just as lawyers or accountants would be, and the staff such as receptionists are not NHS employees, they work for the practice. If they can't bill the NHS for their services because you're not on their books, they aren't interested. It is surprising perhaps, but many people in the UK are unaware…

Right, but why are private practices artificially limited for whom they can bill the NHS? That seems like pointless, unnecessary bureaucracy that comes back to bite them with more A&E visits.

I'm guessing because each one is only set up to bill a particular NHS Trust? But you're right, it should be possible keyed just off an NI number or something.

There is a hospital in my town but it's A&E was closed in 2007 IIRC, so if you can't see a GP you can't even go there, you have to drive a couple of towns over.

Post reply on HN