Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles • Hacker News Board

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#331

Post by gnufx » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #322

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, cheap DACs are not “good enough” unless you’re completely indifferent to audio quality. There’s certainly woo and outright fraud in audio. But there’s also attention to detail. Professional studio engineers will spend $3000 on a high-precision digital clock for their DACs because it makes a clearly audible difference. Software people don’t understand that human hearing, and human sensitivity to timbre and distort…

> People who have neither shouldn’t be telling people who do what they can and can’t perceive. Even if every properly conducted blind placebo test seems to indicate otherwise?

Or even if it makes no physical sense so it even seems worth doing a test. It is depressing to be told people shouldn't do science, especially for the benefit of consumers.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#332

Post by gnufx » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #163

itchyouch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I can say about copper is that it is noisy. We are running FPGAs (with NICs) and were getting lots of packet errors over the copper cable SFP cables. Turns out, we either needed to write out noise cleanup logic into the FPGA, or add in a noise cleanup module which would add an extra 50ns to packet processing to the FPGA. Simple solution was to convert to fiber and the noise and errors all went away. I'd say…

Digital transmission/storage ensures the signal is not affected no matter how much noise is on the line (well, as long as it can be transmitted at all...) Now, what I think you mean is that the copper in the cable picks up noise either from the device on the other end or from the surroundings and that has the possibility of affecting the DAC. Even moderately well designed receiver should be able to galvanically isola…

For an example possibly familiar in computing circles, Infiniband has easily-accessible counters to record transmission errors. In a properly-built system with hundreds of communication-busy nodes connected with copper, you see remarkably low error rates, even in comparison with the spec (maybe a few a week in my experience).

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#333

Post by vilaca » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

I am not to be a jerk with this comment but he spent 60k on an amplifier and 40k on his private power pole.

For that kind of money he could hire professional musicians to be playing real instruments in his living room.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#334

Post by albertgoeswoof » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

kuratkull wrote: post #130

rixrax wrote: post #113

I always wondered how people selling some of these audiophile gadgets can justify to themselves over long run what might appear as a scam to many outsiders. But then I was explained that this is little different than my|your|their wife spending $$$ on some ridiculously expensive Bottega|Hermes|Burberry|... handbag. Which after all is functionally about the same as $1 handbag. Some people choose handbags, or cars, and…

Handbag producers don't claim their bags contain magic. The audiophile stuff producers do. The are making false claims.

Luxury / designer products basically advertise by saying “if you buy this you’ll look cool / more beautiful / stylish / whatever”

It’s the same thing

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#335

Post by golergka » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #59

I don't understand this type of audiophiles. I also have a fairly high end, vintage audio system at home, but I'd never do anything like that in the name of audio quality. There's a quote I love about these people: A normal person uses the audio system to listen music, while an audiophile uses music to listen to his audio system.

I used to obsess over the sound quality before. But when I grew as a musician, I started to care less about the frequency balance, dynamic range and started to care more about the emotional content. Now I listen to music on the cheap and convenient bluetooth headphones, going through dozens new songs every day (in crappy streaming quality), and instead of tweaking Ozone settings, use LANDR for mastering and use this time to work on lyrics instead.

Sound quality is not music quality.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#336

Post by golergka » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #192

IAmGraydon wrote: post #179

I think that you can consider extreme audiophilia to be an expression of obsessive-compulsive disorder, and therefore the audiophile industry is predatory in that it preys upon the mentally ill. I’ve seen it all - including $1,000 aftermarket wooden knobs that were said to dampen sound-corrupting vibrations in your power amplifier. The people who sell these items know exactly what they’re doing, and I hope more peopl…

How do $1,000 aftermarket wooden knobs (with no detectable physical effect) differ from, say, a $1,000 bottle of wine (which cannot be distinguished in a blind taste test from a $5 bottle)? They're just class signifiers. The difference I see is that audiophiles are less prestigious than oenophiles, but I don't see how you get from there to "audiophiles have a mental illness".

I don't know enough about wine, but judgding from experience, I can definetly tell the $1,000 and $20,000 whisky bottles apart by taste. And controlled double blind studies usually tell the same story: people can taste them apart.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#337

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #30

LeoPanthera wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, with less insanity, DC powered equipment running from batteries. Which is still pretty insane. A good quality PSU should be able to tolerate quite a lot of noise. And power conditioners are already a thing.

Indeed, and if you think about it, an amplifier is a power conditioner.

A thousand times this.

Any cheap op-amp you get on the market has 60dB (seems to be a standard) of noise rejection from the power lines. Add a filter you'll have to put anyway at the internal PSU and an amplifier should be able to deal with about any kind of noise.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#338

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

Izmaki wrote: post #307

gerdesj wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire an electrician. While you are at it, get them to do a quick inspection of the rest of the 'leccy stuff at your home. Throw away any power bricks/wall warts/devices whose name you cannot pronounce easily or can't even read. Clear the fluff out from behind your fridge. Fire is no joke and given the EMI in your place I suggest you take it seriously. I'm not suggesting that fire hazards are exacerbated by EMI but th…

I live in an apartment with little or no connected ground. We had weird laws once that allowed electricians to cut corners which they did. If its serious, I could try to convince the landlord... Hmm...

Your first comment sounds like something very serious. The kind of stuff that kills people.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#339

Post by matwood » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #225

thaumasiotes wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do $1,000 aftermarket wooden knobs (with no detectable physical effect) differ from, say, a $1,000 bottle of wine (which cannot be distinguished in a blind taste test from a $5 bottle)? They're just class signifiers. The difference I see is that audiophiles are less prestigious than oenophiles, but I don't see how you get from there to "audiophiles have a mental illness".

Can you link me to this amazing $5 bottle?

$5 is tough to hit. My 'cheap' goto is anything from Rosemount. It's in the $10 range, and is consistently good. The shiraz was their original known variety, but they have others now.

It also used to be cheaper at just under $10, but popularity pushed the price up.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#340

Post by matwood » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

hermitdev wrote: post #207

vortico wrote: post #78

I work in the audio industry, and I can say two things: 1) most everything they do is audio mysticism (i.e. complete BS), and 2) they are very profitable customers.

As a trained EE, non-practicing, I would think it would be far easier to install filters/conditioners on the line to normalize the voltage and current (e.g. performing phase correction). Also, if you had a local AC->DC->AC conversion, could probably get a more uniform power source frequency. Not sure, been a long time since ive studied this, but I think a lot of thw high-end audiophile stuff is snake oil. I've been a…

You can ML electrostatics for much less than 120k. They do sound great, but are still too much for me :)

I'm happy with my 10 year old Paradigms. The next speaker purchase I make is going to get something smaller instead of floor standing. I'm at a point now where I want good sound for music and home theater in the smallest package possible.