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Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

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Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#291

Post by sundvor »

kakarot wrote: post #222
stcredzero wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people that work in IT and still pretend that audio transmission over USB can add jitter to music and that a DAC can "open" or "close" "the stage" by low quality processing of the signal. Audio transmission over USB with cheap converters and poorly chosen levels can result in loss of sound quality. I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between 8 bit, 12 bit, and 16 bit sound. Choosing levels poorly can r…

It's almost as if there's a middle ground to be had somewhere. There are definitely things which can perceptually detract from audio which people just don't think about. I'm about to buy a couple power conditioners for my electronics because the wiring in my new apartment is garbage and every little spike in voltage comes through as a loud pop in my speakers and headphones. But more subtly, my audio is constantly bei…

Not sure why you got downvoted, I've seen crappy electricity in my own home office after I got a UPS for my computer system. It would have its fans kick in regularly to modulate the voltage that came in at a crazy high ~255v (Australia).

I got the APC Line-R 1200VA Line Conditioner With AVR installed in front of the UPS and couldn't be happier now - it steps down the voltage and gives the UPS peace of mind.

Try the APC, not the most expensive thing but it's worked well for me.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#292

Post by ladzoppelin »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #95
bayindirh wrote: post #59

I don't understand this type of audiophiles. I also have a fairly high end, vintage audio system at home, but I'd never do anything like that in the name of audio quality. There's a quote I love about these people: A normal person uses the audio system to listen music, while an audiophile uses music to listen to his audio system.

You don't understand the power of naivety, placebo effect, dreams and stupidity composed (multiply all). Not in any way intended to insult these people, I know a few (not as rich) and they simply do not want to understand the basic principles behind digital signals, error corrections etc. I know people that work in IT and still pretend that audio transmission over USB can add jitter to music and that a DAC can "open"…

Power, DAC'S and headphones are pretty much all that matter when it comes to sound quality. Power matters the most. "You don't understand the power of naivety, placebo effect, dreams and stupidity composed (multiply all)." Its not that simple.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#293

Post by deltron3030 »

stcredzero wrote: post #189
AdrianB1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the power of naivety, placebo effect, dreams and stupidity composed (multiply all). Not in any way intended to insult these people, I know a few (not as rich) and they simply do not want to understand the basic principles behind digital signals, error corrections etc. I know people that work in IT and still pretend that audio transmission over USB can add jitter to music and that a DAC can "open"…

I know people that work in IT and still pretend that audio transmission over USB can add jitter to music and that a DAC can "open" or "close" "the stage" by low quality processing of the signal. Audio transmission over USB with cheap converters and poorly chosen levels can result in loss of sound quality. I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between 8 bit, 12 bit, and 16 bit sound. Choosing levels poorly can r…

Good DACs and ADCs are useful for recording studios who have a lot of analog outboard gear (where the signal leaves and enters their digital setup multiple times). But for normal listening where there are only one or a few conversions, the point of diminishing returns is pretty low.

Most of the perceived gains in quality of higher end equipment (DACs, Amps etc.) come from the higher voltage of the outputs (where you connect your speakers and headphones), this translates into an increased loudness/volume level.

So if you want to do blind tests between different kind of equipment, you have to measure that voltage and make sure it's equal across different pieces of equipment (you can adjust in realtime by volume knobs), otherwise the louder one will always win and perceived as higher quality.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#294

Post by hansjorg »

cheeze wrote: post #267
hansjorg wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oenologists can't even distinguish red from white in a blind test: https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infam...

> The two wines were actually the same white wine as before, but one was dyed with tasteless red food coloring Yes, Oenologists assumed that the wine which was red was actually... red wine. This study is always quoted and is a sham IMO. What this is saying more than anything is "the placebo affect does work." which is totally true. But IMO it doesn't say a whole lot about wine tasting being BS.

Of course this says a lot about wine tasting and the claims made by connoisseurs about their wine tasting abilities.

It's the kind of information that's a bit too upsetting though, even for non connoisseurs to want to accept.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#295

Post by bsaul »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #192
IAmGraydon wrote: post #179

I think that you can consider extreme audiophilia to be an expression of obsessive-compulsive disorder, and therefore the audiophile industry is predatory in that it preys upon the mentally ill. I’ve seen it all - including $1,000 aftermarket wooden knobs that were said to dampen sound-corrupting vibrations in your power amplifier. The people who sell these items know exactly what they’re doing, and I hope more peopl…

How do $1,000 aftermarket wooden knobs (with no detectable physical effect) differ from, say, a $1,000 bottle of wine (which cannot be distinguished in a blind taste test from a $5 bottle)? They're just class signifiers. The difference I see is that audiophiles are less prestigious than oenophiles, but I don't see how you get from there to "audiophiles have a mental illness".

I understand what you mean, but just for the record, professional winetasters can pretty much guess which part of land in a given region a wine comes from in blind tests. So, i can tell you that there is a huge difference between a bottle labelled 1000$ and a 5$ one.

One telling indicator is that wine does practice blind tests a lot, and has blind test wine competitions that lead to prices, that help small wine producers get their brand recognized ( search for wine labelled with « medaille d’argent » or « medaille d’or » of any french wine contest and you won’t be disappointed) .

Audio equipments very much less so.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#297

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tlrobinson wrote: post #155
AdrianB1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the power of naivety, placebo effect, dreams and stupidity composed (multiply all). Not in any way intended to insult these people, I know a few (not as rich) and they simply do not want to understand the basic principles behind digital signals, error corrections etc. I know people that work in IT and still pretend that audio transmission over USB can add jitter to music and that a DAC can "open"…

> a DAC can "open" or "close" "the stage" by low quality processing of the signal In principle a low enough quality DAC certainly could affect "the stage", but in reality even cheap ones are likely good enough. > There is no way to convince these people they are wrong I'm pretty sure many of them don't want to be convinced since it would make their hobby pretty boring. I also wouldn't be surprised if industry players…

No, cheap DACs are not “good enough” unless you’re completely indifferent to audio quality.

There’s certainly woo and outright fraud in audio. But there’s also attention to detail.

Professional studio engineers will spend $3000 on a high-precision digital clock for their DACs because it makes a clearly audible difference.

Software people don’t understand that human hearing, and human sensitivity to timbre and distortion, is spectacularly non-linear.

Hearing isn’t a linear counting device with x volume levels. It’s an incredibly sophisticated neural network that performs real time classification and source separation based on spatial and ambient cues, spectral analysis, predictive modelling, and entropy estimation.

Some people’s brains and ears are better at all of this than others. Those people can hear things other people can’t.

In music, someone with a trained ear can name the notes in a chord. Someone with exceptional skill can name the notes in a random cluster of pitches on the lowest octave of a piano.

Audio quality has analogous levels of sensitivity. People who have neither shouldn’t be telling people who do what they can and can’t perceive.

Re: Audiophiles in Japan Are Installing Their Own Power Poles

#299

Post by sjwright »

zmix wrote: post #277
sjwright wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Everything is ultimately subject to physics, including optical signals. Nobody claims otherwise. But it is incorrect to say that digital transmissions must be at the mercy of physics. Digital transmissions can defy physics. There are numerous techniques which ensure that a signal reaches the destination with precisely zero flipped bits and exact timing. And even whe…

> I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Everything is ultimately subject to physics, including optical signals. Nobody claims otherwise. Sorry, I misformulated my sentence. It should have read ( emphasizing what I left out from the sentence in my previous post): > You mean like those people, who argue, that: “Everything is a sequence of Zeroes and Ones, therefore the signal either gets transmitted or no…

I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. Certainly doesn’t have anything to do with how actual systems in the real world work.
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