What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#171

Post by Toutou » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:12 AM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #68

robertAngst wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was brought up in Adam Ruins Everything, and his Automotive episode was so misleading that I don't trust anything he says. >I don’t get why cities are built around cars. Sure there is a fantasy that we could have cities that don't require roads. However our modern 5,000,000 population Metro areas wouldnt exist. Instead housing prices would skyrocket, and the lowest income people would be forced to live in rural…

You assume the issue is binary: cars or no cars. Nobody is asking for no cars. We want less cars. Right now, cars are first class citizens in every American city. Motorists get what they want, and walkers, cyclists, and transport users get what's left over. It doesn't have to be that way. European cities get by fine without cars in city centers. Do you really need a car to get to work in midtown Manhattan? Why are th…

> European cities get by fine without cars in city centers.

Where did you get that from? Some of them, sometimes, with exceptions, with mixed success. Certainly not Prague (which is where I live). The public transport system is absolutely fantastic, but as of now it's at 100 % capacity (locally) and the city center is still full of cars. People need to move stuff, plumbers, electricians can't haul their tools around in a bag, the streets need to remain perfectly accessible for ambulances and firetrucks.

Don't forget that most European cities are hundreds of years old, built on river banks, rocks, hills, the complete opposite of most US cities.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#172

Post by erklik » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #56

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #35

Yeah, they're doing this plan to Evansville, IN. And it's one hell of a job. They've killed downtown, since there's no 'outer areas' to park. Sidewalks are in complete disarray, and cars still zoom on past. But the center areas where there are no cars also is set up for no people to move about. The road ledges are still there, so handicapped people cant just use their wheelchairs. It's the worst of both worlds.

It's possible to do this well and badly. Bad iterations of this feel like urban renewal - like those horrifying stunts they pulled in the 70s where they closed half the streets in a given area, put huge ring roads around the area, and then wondered why a urban paradise didn't spontaneously spring into being. It needs to be done along with public transit (usually the missing link it the US and Australia) and a reasona…

> Australia

As an anecdote, close to where I live is a suburb called Wellard. They basically have a small shopping district (One Woolies, Subway, Pizza shop, Cafe, Postie etc) right next to the train station. In fact, walking out of the train station, you're bound to walk through the shopping area as that's sort of the way people walk to get to their houses. Its kinda perfect position.

What they did was to simply make it that street between the shops is closed to cars on the weekends. Its an amazing place during that time, and allow people to set up stalls in the parking lots around the road. Its an awesome place to just sit and talk on a weekend. The parking is behind the shops so its not like one can't get there on a car either.

The speed on the road during normal days is also something like 20-30km/hr and they have that brick-like road which means driving your car fast on the road isn't that fun.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#173

Post by RaceWon » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:31 AM UTC

ndnxhs wrote: post #38

justtopost wrote: post #2

Nothing happens if you keep them inside feeding their tiktok and fortnite addictions. I can't even recall the last time I broke up a hockey or streetball game driving through neighborhoods.

You have never been on a street that would support a hockey game. Such a street would not allow you to drive on it. There were hardly any kids outside in my suburb and then the council built a small dirt jumps park and the day it opens there is a swarm of 40 - 50 people using it. People won't use something until it exists for them to use it.

Kids play hockey on the street I live on, basketball too. When I had the GTI I'd try to park it in such a way as to shield it a bit in my driveway. I'd however Never say anything to them... when I was their age we played Hardball in the street.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#174

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:47 AM UTC

thomasfl wrote: post #64

According to Richard Branson “Clients do not come first. Employees come first. If you take care of your employees, they will take care of the clients.” The same goes for cities. Take care of the citizens, and the citizens will take care of business. Removing parking may be bad for local shops in the short run, but good for the citizens and the city in the long run.

That's only true in some instances for some combination of high margin, not easily reproducible, or low volume products that serve wealthy purchasers.

The reason Walmart killed everyone was because purchasers valued saving a few dollars rather than being taken care of by employees. Similarly with airlines, which Branson wasn’t really able to expand beyond the wealthy NYC-LA-SF routes.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#175

Post by chmod775 » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:51 AM UTC

white-flame wrote: post #155

TulliusCicero wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, you can't just shut down an area to cars and call it a day, if the overall area is still designed around cars. To really make it work, the area has to be accessible to walking (and public transport). Which usually means higher population densities than most US cities -- even major cities -- have, and better public transit.

Also massive parking structures. It's the interface between car-places and walking-places, necessary for the otherwise car-centric norm outside.

Virtually no Fußgängerzone in Germany has that, but it might be worth consideration for lack of better alternatives like public transport.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#176

Post by rumcajz » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 9:51 AM UTC

oska wrote: post #148

manmal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the place where I live (Austria, town with 30k residents), the Fußgängerzone in the center is currently dying. Shops close left and right, and migrate to the three big shopping centers. This town is a strange mix because almost everybody needs to own a car (bus system is underdeveloped) to take kids to school or shop groceries, but the town itself is not that big (a lot of places are reachable by bike). Most peopl…

Why do parents feel the need to take children to school in a small town in a very safe country? Why can't they ride a bike or walk?

In Switzerland (at least where we live) parents are actively discouraged to bring kids to school or pre-school. The kids are supposed to get there on their own.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#177

Post by _ph_ » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:04 AM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #175

white-flame wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also massive parking structures. It's the interface between car-places and walking-places, necessary for the otherwise car-centric norm outside.

Virtually no Fußgängerzone in Germany has that, but it might be worth consideration for lack of better alternatives like public transport.

A lot of German cities has large parking garages acrosss the city centers. So it is quite possible to drive to those garages by car and then continue by foot. Cologne for example had an electronic system in place even 30 years ago, which would account all free parking spots in the big garages. Those numbers would be relayed to traffic signs at the big roads leading into the city. So while approaching the inner city you could see the total amount of free parking spaces and as you get closer you would get signs pointing out this number for the individual garages. So it was quite easy to directly find a parking slot as long as there was a reasonable amount of slot left.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#178

Post by ajuc » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:11 AM UTC

My city (Lublin, Poland - about 350 000 people) is doing something similar (if not on this scale).

They introduced long pedestrian street in one of the busiest streets in city center in 90s, it worked pretty well - created lots of restaurants, clubs and shops.

In 00s-10s some of them failed (I blame internet shopping and malls in the outskirts), especially the shops, and mostly banks and mobile phone booths replace them. But the restaurants and clubs remain, and the street is very pleasant, always full of people. It helps that Lublin is an university city (about 20% of population are students).

Recently the city created some more pedestrian streets, invested into biking infrastructure (lots of bike routes, city-funded bike rental system). It's OK, but the city is on hills so biking is quite demanding, mostly young people do it.

Also the public transit is very nice in the city centre, but there are no trams, only trolleybuses and regular buses (because hills). So - public transit waits in traffic jams just like cars.

There's one night each summer when they turn big part of the city center into pedestrian area, put artificial grass on many streets, people sunbathe there. It changes the city completely. I know it's not realistic to make it permanent, but it's so nice.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#179

Post by Isn0gud » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:12 AM UTC

benc666 wrote: post #108

smallnamespace wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course 'footganger' almost makes sense in English — 'gang' in the sense of a passage is preserved in 'gangplank', and modern 'gang' has the related sense of 'group of people who go together'.

In Afrikaans - spoken in ZA (south africa) - that is pretty much the actual word :) "voetganger" "voet" - foot/feet "ganger" - someone who moves along using the former noun The Latin Root is what connects many European languages.

Latin or Romance languages and Germanic languages are quite different though. So Spanish/French/Italian have a lot in common in terms of grammar and vocabulary. Same for Germanic languages like German/Norsk/Swedish/Dutch. These two roots mostly only have some words in common.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#180

Post by reitanqild » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:30 AM UTC

oska wrote: post #148

manmal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the place where I live (Austria, town with 30k residents), the Fußgängerzone in the center is currently dying. Shops close left and right, and migrate to the three big shopping centers. This town is a strange mix because almost everybody needs to own a car (bus system is underdeveloped) to take kids to school or shop groceries, but the town itself is not that big (a lot of places are reachable by bike). Most peopl…

Why do parents feel the need to take children to school in a small town in a very safe country? Why can't they ride a bike or walk?

In the winter it is too slippery for bikes and it sometimes gets biting cold - or worse IMO: cold, wet and windy.

We pay for bus for our 3 oldest kids in the winter.

Also wolves are returningnin some parts of Europe and while people say wolves are so shy and afraid of humans I understand extremely well why parents don't risk their kids in an experiment to see if the predator that lives off moose actually is afraid of children or not.