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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#321

Post by AngryData »

pault wrote: post #52
capdeck wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very valid point. While I don't have all the answers, but it seems like if a person is pulling an honest 40 hour week they should afford at the very least a real minimum standard of living, regardless of what that person does. I know this sounds hairy and anti-capitalist and "who is going to pay for this", etc. But this is what real value is in my opinion.

What if I spend 40 hours a week making paper hats? Should I be entitled to a living wage?

If there was enough demand for 40 hours worth of folded paper hats, yes.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#322

Post by vanviegen »

labster wrote: post #238
wallflower wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't clear in the original comment but the paper that the high school student did was not supposed to be written by the parent or receive assistance from the parent in any form. The student was in high school!

I've never had assignments that were supposed to have parental assistance after preschool, yet many of them needed it to get a non-failing grade. Perhaps 1% of middle school kids can do a science fair project on their own with all the research tracking and results board and all. But still if you failed that, you failed the class. Utterly ridiculous. Kids that age should be exploring and apprenticing, not coming up wi…

So which is it? Are we asking middle school kids to come up with original research, or are we training them to be good factory workers? These statements seem to point in exact opposite directions.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#323

Post by Jach »

twtw wrote: post #306
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

This sounds a lot like my mom's situation. In the last decade, parents and admins have made her job terrible. The parents make similar demands regarding grades - if their kid does poorly on an exam, it doesn't even enter into their mind that they didn't study or are super lazy, it's automatically the teacher's fault for making the test too hard or teaching the material poorly. Same goes for kids failing a class becau…

> I've been trying to convince her to just give the whole class As for years.

That's probably what I would do, at least if this became a problem. I'd still maintain an unofficial parallel "rank" that more corresponds to what I think a grade should be, purely for mine and my students' own benefit in knowing about information gaps, but on their official transcripts it'd be very hard not to get an A just so I don't have to deal with parents/admins as much. (Having a reputation for 'easy A' can also help in keeping the classes full.)

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#324

Post by dorchadas »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #286
dorchadas wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that's how I have to do it, too. Best decision I ever made was moving an hour away from where I worked too. I never see kids out anywhere, and never feel pressure to not do things I enjoy that might be looked down on in a rural conservative community (drinking, mostly). I also never really have to deal with seeing students out so no awkward convos there, either. And it gives me time to wake up in the morni…

That’s, assuming you work 48 weeks a year, 20 full days spent in transportation though...

To be honest, I find it worth it. I can use the time to listen to podcasts and generally just unwind, or I can use it to prepare. I tried living in the area for a while, and it was just awful. Seeing students everywhere I went got old quick, especially cause they would awkwardly stare and such, as if they couldn't imagine teachers having lives outside of school. It was the worst at the gym, especially if I wanted to try to swim or go to the sauna. And, of course, I can mention having the parents complain about me as a teacher because I dared drink "the devil's water" with supper at a restaurant!

Now, I don't have to worry about any of that, get cheaper rent and better internet (it ends up being cheaper even when gas/maintenance is factored in, as well), as well as live in a fairly vibrant college town that has a lot of options on things to do. Plus, I can listen to podcasts and music to learn/unwind on my way to and from work. Just mentally for me it's well worth it.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#325

Post by libraryatnight »

One of my friends was a teacher. He enjoyed it, but the money was so bad it was frequently a point of stress for his family. He asked about raises, they said no - but that they could pay more to teachers that have a masters. So he went back to school and got one (a difficult choice since that also costs money, but it seemed worth it). After he received it, there was a wage freeze.

Long story short, he now works in corporate training.

We treat teachers badly.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#326

Post by remarkEon »

grecy wrote: post #67
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

My entire family are teachers (Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother), and have all had to deal with this to varying degrees, and have had it consume their lives at various times. My brother has the best work-life balance of any teacher I have ever met, and I think his approach is brilliant. Teaching is one of those careers where the expectation is on the teacher to endlessly do more and work harder, "For the kids", and if you k…

It doesn’t sound like you’re in America. My sister is a teacher here and if she behaved that way she’d be fired immediately.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#327

Post by pfortuny »

8bitsrule wrote: post #184
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

"What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" "She can't, because that's the grade she earned in the time alloted. The moving finger, having writ, has moved on. "However, I'm confident that, with Janie's capabilities, a little more effort from her and help from you, she can easily demonstrate a higher level of mastery and the consequent benefits from longer-term retention. "Princeton will NOT be a picnic, and dev…

The only reasonable reply is “that would be unfair to the rest of the class”. Because it is true and the only reason.

And stop at that.

Otherwise you start on a losing discussion.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#328

Post by watwut »

8bitsrule wrote: post #184
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

"What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" "She can't, because that's the grade she earned in the time alloted. The moving finger, having writ, has moved on. "However, I'm confident that, with Janie's capabilities, a little more effort from her and help from you, she can easily demonstrate a higher level of mastery and the consequent benefits from longer-term retention. "Princeton will NOT be a picnic, and dev…

Except that many teachers easily give occasion for extra credit, extra time, etc both in elementary or in collage.

So all in all, students who ask for that end up with better grades and better chances where grades matter.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#329

Post by concerned_user »

chupasaurus wrote: post #299
MisterTea wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the stance that the +/- nomenclature should be taken outback and shot. It's that bad. A+ Student has demonstrated that they have exceeded a firm grasp of the subject. (How do you measure to 11 on a scale of 1-10?) A Student has demonstrated that they have a firm grasp of the subject. (makes sense, this means they know their stuff.) A- Student kinda has a firm grasp of the subject. (WTF?) Now apply that s…

In Russia we use Excellent, Good, Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory and Weak from 1837. The worst grade wasn't used for some time scools but is coming back in common practice for missing work ([0]English Wiki doesn't have it but states that it's a 5-point grade system). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grading_systems_by_country#Rus...

Lithuanian schools in up to about 1998 (might be wrong on exact year) had same system, then it was changed to 10 grades, but the lowest grade - 1 was ever used as a disciplinary action. Lowest you would get for failing assignment or homework was a 2. But even when it was 5 grade system the 3-, 4+ or 5- was quite regular occurrence and depended on teacher and subject mostly, as +/- were not accounted officially so 4- was exactly same as 4 for the final grade of a quarter/trimester.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#330

Post by Tade0 »

ams6110 wrote: post #243
x0x0 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply of people who can reliably turn time at a keyboard into code that solves problems people are willing to pay to have solved is wildly outstripped by demand. You're just continuing to see that in a world where most other industries don't have a supply problem. Also, as rationale people will be happy to tell you, buying my employees lunch is a screaming deal. An employee going to lunch takes at least an hour:…

Why not make them work through lunch and provide overhead delivery of liquid nutritional supplements and coffee through a rubber tube? And you could have their desk chair plumbed to the sewer line so they would not need to take bathroom breaks. You might recover another 60 minutes of time during the day.

You snark, but the lunches are a thing. I had mine provided by the company for this exact reason.

Unfortunately this particular company had a penchant for saving every possible penny, so the quality of the food wasn't too good either.

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