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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#101

Post by bjourne »

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

That complaint doesn't make any sense. I can understand teachers complaining about kids disturbing their lessons, are unruly and threaten them with violence and so on. I can not understand teachers complaining about kids being extra ambitious and doing what they can to get the highest grades! I'll get downvoted for this, but if your moms worst problem is overachievers and parents caring about their children's education, she needs to suck it up. :)

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#102

Post by e1g »

archon wrote: post #91
e1g wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away - when parents email for information, they do not stop just because they didn’t get a response. They will reach out through other methods. Do you know how that irreducible workload gets resolved, other than getting passed to colleagues who do put in extra effort/hours?

> Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away If a teacher's work email is anything like my email inbox at work, ~90% of emails just go away if ignored. The other ~10% email again if it's actually important. Once your contacts are "trained" not to expect instant feedback to every email they send you, you can often get some actual work done.

This is often the case for internal comms in a large company overran with administrators / coordinators. Yet parents are more like customers than colleagues - and no operation can ignore 90% of external / customer comms and stay alive (to say nothing of effective!)

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#103

Post by sopooneo »

sethammons wrote: post #71
lr4444lr wrote: post #53

Lots of comments to the tune of "pay teachers more." Teachers in large urban areas with strong unions tend to be paid quite well, especially factoring in benefits, and it doesn't necessarily correlate that well with various metrics of "success" in education (standardized test scores, on-time graduation rate, fewer violent incidents) once you look into individual cases and see through the administrative means by which…

In the area I taught, median pay was about $60k/yr. After 20 years and getting more advanced degrees, you could get to $80k/yr. Most of the teachers I worked with worked more hours per year than just about any software engineer I know. Only very lazy or very tenured teachers were getting the fabled summer vacation or winter break. I have more income, more vacation, and better hours as a developer than I ever did as a…

Similar situation. After leaving teaching for development I spent the first two years in something like a state of grace. I loved teaching, but my gosh, the stress levels weren't even in the same universe.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#104

Post by [deleted] »

joe_the_user wrote: post #86
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

She told me of an email she received that said "X is trying to get into Princeton - an A- isn't going to get her in. What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" That's a horrible thing to say ... except I could even say from bitter experience that Princeton vs whatever-public-college is indeed a jump in *perceived( quality of education (there has been discussion of 150K vs 80K programming here and while they sho…

[deleted]

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#105

Post by [deleted] »

dominotw wrote: post #50
ineedasername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

> I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. Isn't it 'rigid' to give only a limited amount of time( end of yr or whatever) for that chance. Seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-level knowledge, you're still getting a lower grade".

[deleted]

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#106

Post by [deleted] »

pault wrote: post #52
capdeck wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very valid point. While I don't have all the answers, but it seems like if a person is pulling an honest 40 hour week they should afford at the very least a real minimum standard of living, regardless of what that person does. I know this sounds hairy and anti-capitalist and "who is going to pay for this", etc. But this is what real value is in my opinion.

What if I spend 40 hours a week making paper hats? Should I be entitled to a living wage?

[deleted]

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#107

Post by dba7dba »

Shivetya wrote: post #61
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

in a similar vein, my aunt who is going for a few more years than your mom noted that the ratio of non teaching jobs to teaching narrowed considerably and she ended moving from a city system to a county system because of all the appointees from the mayor's office which ate up funds they could use for other needs. throw in that many of the non teaching jobs are being held in higher regard and also quick to deflect the…

It is a very curious thing that administrators in school districts are held in higher regard than the teachers.

Programmers are held in higher regard because they do the actual work, if you know what I mean. Everyone else is in a support role.

And yet in school administrators are paid higher and have it easier, because they don't have to deal with parents directly.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#108

Post by zackbloom »

neom wrote: post #25

One of my favourite hypotheticals to play out is what would be like if we somehow paid public school teachers and emergency services/law enforcement professionals an extreme of today, a million usd a year, and increased the difficulty to attain this work. I usually end up in a pretty good place but I'd be curious what others think/why this couldn't work?

I think a generally cheaper and easier way to manage it would be to require all children, rich and poor, go to the same schools. The economic factors would change pretty dramatically for being a public school teacher.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#109

Post by credit_guy »

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

I have a view from both sides of this issue. I have school-age kids and my wife is a math professor (though college level, not pre-college). As a parent, I'm aware how important in life it is to have a good college on your resume. And how much more important it will be 20 years from now. I have the fortune to be able to show a STEM degree from a well respected (at leas in HN world) institution; this gave me a huge boost in my career. The odds to be admitted at such a university nowadays, if you are educated in the US, are lower and lower each day. Every single day, the US gets a little bit behind in the education race. That's why lots of upper-middle class parents are totally obsessed with their kids academic performance. Tiger-parenting and all.

Now from the other side, my wife is a model of efficiency. She receives lots of emails from students disappointed with their grades (even today she got some; we are in post-exam period). She's very calm about it. She knows she did her job well, so she simply doesn't care about whiners. She never had to deal with an escalation though (i.e. lawsuit, arbitration, etc).

I guess my point is that teachers have to simply get more thick-skinned. Just do your job, and let the whiners whine all they want. They are scared stiff themselves after all.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#110

Post by robertAngst »

djrobstep wrote: post #54
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

What's sad is that all this desperate competition by parents to improve their kid's grades is zero-sum: A noisy but pointless rearrangement of positions on the socio-economic ladder. One kid getting into Princeton means another misses out. Very little of it results in actual useful learning or eventual public benefit.

As someone who went to a University you never heard of, I'm the highest paid in my group. I wont forget this in the future for my children.

Your skills are more important than the prestige of your school.

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