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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#31
post #11

Articles like these, while only loosely related, always make me think that the software engineering bubble has to pop. You have people with ton of education busting their behind dealing with little brats all day to try to make sure they have a future... During that time, some bro who read a couple of books and hammered on his keyboard, and MAYBE did a 3 months bootcamp gets bummed if he can't pull in 100k in one of t…

This is a very valid point. While I don't have all the answers, but it seems like if a person is pulling an honest 40 hour week they should afford at the very least a real minimum standard of living, regardless of what that person does. I know this sounds hairy and anti-capitalist and "who is going to pay for this", etc. But this is what real value is in my opinion.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#32

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

> Especially now that she has to post everyone's grades online, instantly emails roll in when a student didn't perform as well as the parent expected.

Not to take away from your point, which I think has merit, from the other side of the spectrum as a parent that has a child that struggled mightily to not fail for the first couple years of high school, the amount that teachers screw up the online grading is incredible. As teachers, if you're getting regular requests from parents worried about assignments showing online with zero/empty values for them that cause the grades to show F and it's just because you haven't finished entering all the work in, maybe find a workflow process that eliminates or reduces the amount of time the system shows that?

Seeing multiple F's show online for days at a time leads to tense discussions and arguments with kids, and if it's all resolved with the teacher saying "I haven't finished entering grades yet" you start to really resent the system from the other side too.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay more and treat teachers better. Market forces at work.

Depends where. In Westchester/Nassau counties (bordering NYC) teachers get a pretty sweet deal.

It is extraordinarily difficult to move from a relatively low paying teaching job (such as in the NYC DOE) to a high paying job in Westchester. There is far, far more labor supply than there is demand. If you don't get in when you're young (and therefore cheap), it's most likely not going to happen.

When I was growing up my father worked in an "elite" Westchester private school and my mother worked in the NYC DOE. The job fulfillment, administrative support and overall ease of working was like night and day between them.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#34
post #11

Articles like these, while only loosely related, always make me think that the software engineering bubble has to pop. You have people with ton of education busting their behind dealing with little brats all day to try to make sure they have a future... During that time, some bro who read a couple of books and hammered on his keyboard, and MAYBE did a 3 months bootcamp gets bummed if he can't pull in 100k in one of t…

I think we should treat teachers better and pay them more. I agree we should value other professions too. That being said, I’m not following how attitudes in software engineering are related to the topic of this post.

The freebies, on call outrage, etc is inherent to the tech industry with venture capitalist money or otherwise insane net profits... the longer term sustainability is questionable, but fresh college grads or others early in their careers having unreasonable expectations of reality are not so different than your average political science or psychology major taking on egregious levels of debt only to struggle with making student loan payments.

Again, I agree with valuing other disciplines. I think there’s also something to be said about supply and demand. The Googles and Amazons of the world typically hire people at least somewhat competent in CS. Sure you could pick up pick up Ruby on Rails or whatever framework to join the gig economy, but your chances won’t be great at becoming a engineer at a Google caliber company.

The issue with teacher pay isn’t just about what society values but is more nuanced. My conservative friends don’t see the value in public education and insist on sending their kids to private schools. I don’t know how those teachers are paid, but for the public school system that I participated in, the argument becomes well my kid doesn’t attend so why should I pay for it?

In my opinion, it’s very short sighted and destructive for the country in the long term. It’s not only teachers we are devaluing but an entire generation of children whose parents are not able to absorb the exorbant costs of private schools.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#35

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom.

But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-level knowledge, you're still getting a lower grade".

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#36

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

>She told me of an email she received that said "X is trying to get into Princeton - an A- isn't going to get her in. What extra credit can she do to make this an A?".

Get off your kids ass, for starters, lady

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#37
post #25

One of my favourite hypotheticals to play out is what would be like if we somehow paid public school teachers and emergency services/law enforcement professionals an extreme of today, a million usd a year, and increased the difficulty to attain this work. I usually end up in a pretty good place but I'd be curious what others think/why this couldn't work?

This was tried in NYC by The Equity Project - a charter school (125K base salary, very demanding qualifications). I'm sure that it works well in niche markets and test scores aren't everything, but results (test scores) were not that stellar as you might imagine when compared with similar Charter schools to suggest it could scale.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#38

I believe we see this article every time we have a strong economy. When the economy is strong, teaching is unappealing. When the economy is weak, many people cannot find other gigs and so flood into the relative security of teaching. Teaching may also be less pleasant in the social media and smartphone age, for reasons enumerated in The Coddling of the American Mind (a highly recommended book). There may also be a ge…

Do you have any evidence other than a Reddit thread of anecdotes (about students "seducing" their teachers - ugh) that male teachers routinely have their lives ruined by false accusations of molestation? Here's some evidence on the "other side" of the issue: Chicago public schools routinely broke the law by failing to report credible accusations of molestation of students by teachers and staff. https://graphics.chica…

I think most male teachers in the US will tell you that they have to be careful never to be alone in a room with a student, and careful never to hug a crying student.

Meanwhile female teachers either don't have to worry about this much, or will even be applauded for comforting a crying student by hugging them.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#40

I left teaching over 8 years ago. Elevated myself from programming for fun and sometimes pay to being a full time software developer. Best career move ever.

Same here. I confirm your experience. Teaching takes a certain temperament though, and I admit I just don't have it.
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