Fundamental rule of traffic: building new roads makes people drive more (2015)

Post by marcosdumay » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 10:25 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #45

tafda wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transit works better if it is where people are going rather than where it is convenient to build - for example, downtown Falls Church VA instead of the freeway median. Building densely around the stations can drive ridership. See: Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore. Of course, building in more congested areas is more expensive. Freeway median transit is no panacea (though better than nothing).

Well the idea is that the major highways are a good indicator of where people are going. If you build a major high way, and then widen it, chances are good its where people want to travel along. With respect to getting to downtown Falls Church VA, that is more a last mile problem. One I dont want to dismiss, but not something a commuter rail can solve. The commuter rail does pretty well at getting people to several m…

Post by sethherr » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #89

honkycat wrote: post #71

If you are sitting there thinking: "So what", I highly recommend you educate yourself on how building roads actually affects US infrastructure. We have a CRUMBLING infrastructure in the US, and people are constantly complaining about potholes in major metropolitan areas. And the solution is build more roads? We cannot even maintain the ones we have! Recommended reading: - https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-…

Counterpoint: I grew up in an area which allegedly has some of the worst roads in the country. They're fine . Sure they're not silky-smooth surfaces ready for MotoGP but contemporary mass-market vehicles have no problem traversing them. At worst you're going to feel uncomfortable for half a second. Really bad construction might slow you down 10-20 minutes. Meanwhile America's best, most expensive, most politically su…

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

sethherr wrote: post #123

closeparen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I grew up in an area which allegedly has some of the worst roads in the country. They're fine . Sure they're not silky-smooth surfaces ready for MotoGP but contemporary mass-market vehicles have no problem traversing them. At worst you're going to feel uncomfortable for half a second. Really bad construction might slow you down 10-20 minutes. Meanwhile America's best, most expensive, most politically su…

My lived experience is that public transit is great. I take BART 5 days a week and have a 15 minute late experience once every few months. This to me is something like the “I can’t live in a city because I can’t afford a 2000 square foot detached unit” issue. You just need to modify your expectations. I’m far happier and less stressed not driving every day - but yes, it’s noisy and I have to stand and sometimes somet…

Post by sethherr » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 10:38 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #89

honkycat wrote: post #71

If you are sitting there thinking: "So what", I highly recommend you educate yourself on how building roads actually affects US infrastructure. We have a CRUMBLING infrastructure in the US, and people are constantly complaining about potholes in major metropolitan areas. And the solution is build more roads? We cannot even maintain the ones we have! Recommended reading: - https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-…

Counterpoint: I grew up in an area which allegedly has some of the worst roads in the country. They're fine . Sure they're not silky-smooth surfaces ready for MotoGP but contemporary mass-market vehicles have no problem traversing them. At worst you're going to feel uncomfortable for half a second. Really bad construction might slow you down 10-20 minutes. Meanwhile America's best, most expensive, most politically su…

Post by User23 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

ed312 wrote: post #67

User23 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works great in countries one can bike across in a day. It’s not really a solution for American commuters. People mainly choose long commutes for housing affordability. When workers can’t afford to live within biking distance of work, then it’s not a viable solution.

It might also be worth starting to let go of the notion that you need 2000+ sq ft and a 1/4 acre yard as a minimum. Roads are effectively a subsidy to that life style (everyone shouldn't be forced to pay for the life style of a few).