Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#121

Post by barrkel » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #56

tsomctl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that this doesn't bode well for Tesla. My biggest complaint with Tesla is that they don't provide service manuals or have an open parts department for their vehicles. For comparison, pretty much every other major auto maker will sell you a book telling you how to fix anything on your vehicle, and will sell you the parts and special tools to do so. Not Tesla, and given what we know about Ellison, I very mu…

> For comparison, pretty much every other major auto maker will sell you a book telling you how to fix anything on your vehicle Wow I didn't know this. I have hard time believing this. Where can I find this for my subaru 2019.

Honda sells workshop manuals like they sell parts and tools - you just need to know the code, and you can get it shipped from any dealer who can deliver OEM parts.

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#122

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #112

sokoloff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely it has some benefit for the society that lives under it? It does seem that societies with generally capitalist systems flourish to a much greater degree than societies that are organized under any other dominant economic system.

That really depends on what your definition of "flourish" is. The United States is really the only country that has "flourished" under a capitalist system and that's only if you define that through the definition of capitalism which is to say that there is more capital in the US than in other nations. Attributing that to capitalism, though, and not to years and years of industrial progress, human slavery, and, arguab…

The contemporary competitors to the US with different economic fundamentals (China and the USSR primarily) also experienced/inflicted slavery, immoral behavior, and industrial progress, yet they didn't see nearly the same level of economic or societal development for the overwhelmingly vast majority of their population over their time of heavy-handed central planning economics.

If you knew you'd be assigned at birth to a life of 10th to 90th percentile (by status/money/class) in a non-wartime country and it would be US, UK, USSR, or China and your birth year would be 1880, 1900, 1920, 1938, 1960, or 1980, how many would choose the USSR or China?

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#123

Post by T3RMINATED » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

Larry Ellison... ew... sell your tesla while it still has value.

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#124

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #68

rossdavidh wrote: post #48

After his failure, as virtually the only Theranos board member with a high-tech background, to provide any good advice on tech development to Elizabeth Holmes, this seemed incredible to me. Then, I read this in the statement: "Larry is also a big believer in Tesla’s mission, having purchased 3 million shares earlier this year." So, Musk was required to introduce more outside independence to his board, per agreement w…

Both Ellison and Musk are vying for the position of “real life Tony Stark”, I will wager in the next year they will have a major falling out.

I always thought Ellison's role is Lex Luthor :-)

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#125

Post by almost_usual » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

tsomctl wrote: post #11

gtirloni wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Oracle is bad. No, I don't love or even like them. But quoting Bryan's dramatic speeches every time Oracle or Ellison are mentioned is adding next to nothing to the discussion at this point. It's a great way to incite anger though.

My point is that this doesn't bode well for Tesla. My biggest complaint with Tesla is that they don't provide service manuals or have an open parts department for their vehicles. For comparison, pretty much every other major auto maker will sell you a book telling you how to fix anything on your vehicle, and will sell you the parts and special tools to do so. Not Tesla, and given what we know about Ellison, I very mu…

"You have to go to a Tesla Service Center to get your wheels aligned. It costs 10x more than an alignment somewhere else but it's for your own safety. If you go to another shop to get an alignment our software will detect it and void your warranty. Welcome to the future!"

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#126

Post by vkou » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #114

u320 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're talking about a guy who has no shame in using a publicly traded company (Oracle) to bail himself out of personal investments gone wrong (See Pillar Data). Kind of like using SpaceX to fund SolarCity and then using Tesla to bail out SolarCity so that SpaceX bond holdings doesn't go bust?

>Tesla to bail out SolarCity so that SpaceX bond holdings doesn't go bust? Right... so SpaceX doesn't go bust. Not "so he can personally enrich himself". Nothing I've seen thus far from Elon indicates to me that his decision making is based entirely on his personal net-worth. In fact most of his moves show the exact OPPOSITE - that he doesn't care at all about his personal wealth and he cares about changing the world…

Elon is a majority shareholder in SpaceX.

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#127

Post by foolrush » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #59

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, there's a whole bunch of businesses and governments that are trapped on oracle. That's because they were the only game 20 years ago. And inertia and lockin is the game. Where I work uses Oracle. And every dev and sysad wants away from it. And the answer every time is "we can't support forking our DB backend cause were too tied to oracle and its bugs". And the prices go up and up. And everyone on it is effe…

Is there a standard capitalist solution to lock-in? (Or is it too new of a problem to have been researched?) This seems like a fatal flaw if your goal is even merely free markets and vibrant competition, not even improving society. Perhaps one option is to remove government protection from trade secrets and intellectual property. Were it not for the threat of government interference, a competitor could easily arrange…

> Perhaps one option is to remove government protection from trade secrets and intellectual property.

That isn’t necessarily “government” but a byproduct of a particular system that has spiralled into the bowl of capitalism upon capitalism; the lobbyists negotiated those laws on behalf of capitalism. Chicken egg issue that isn’t going away given how up to the neck capitalism is wired into government.

In Europe, some protections against that are enforced by government.

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#128

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

u320 wrote: post #105

tw04 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would label it as extremely bad. You're talking about a guy who has no shame in using a publicly traded company (Oracle) to bail himself out of personal investments gone wrong (See Pillar Data). He's literally everything that is wrong with capitalism embodied. He's made a living off holding customers hostage and milking them for every last penny. Tesla has made a living off customer service.

> You're talking about a guy who has no shame in using a publicly traded company (Oracle) to bail himself out of personal investments gone wrong (See Pillar Data). Kind of like using SpaceX to fund SolarCity and then using Tesla to bail out SolarCity so that SpaceX bond holdings doesn't go bust?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#129

Post by simion314 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

midnitewarrior wrote: post #38

tsomctl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that this doesn't bode well for Tesla. My biggest complaint with Tesla is that they don't provide service manuals or have an open parts department for their vehicles. For comparison, pretty much every other major auto maker will sell you a book telling you how to fix anything on your vehicle, and will sell you the parts and special tools to do so. Not Tesla, and given what we know about Ellison, I very mu…

Apple started the path to normalizing this, and I believe it's core to being responsible for the entire user experience. Personally, I'm not a fan of this, but I understand the motives aside from profit. If a Tesla gets poor maintenance by an unskilled shop, when the vehicle crashes and kills the driver, Tesla gets the black eye and has to defend itself in the media and in front of the NHTSA. Tesla's stock takes the…

This are very bad excuses, Did BMW,Ford or other car manufacturer had issues because people use a car service that is not "official" but is very convenient?

Is Tesla planing to open car services in all locations were regular services are or you will have to send the car back to the dealer so they send it back to Tesla and wait 3 weeks like you have to do with Apple.

About Apple,

-1 Apple sells expensive products and non-Apple PCs and phones come in different price ranges, so in average Apple products will be better quality.

- 2 Apple products break too, I have such a laptop and many other people can confirm that they have hardware issues and we also see that until justice is involved the issues are not acknowledged

- 3 Apple always had a good image in some demographics and it is not correlated with the fact they are trying to hide the hardware schematics, try to stop third party to repair the products, the good reputation was because of the software and hardware.

For the Apple fans that will downvote, also leave some factual reason why I am wrong, something like why do you think the new anti-repair movement is increasing Apple branding or what fact I got wrong.

Re: Tesla Adds Larry Ellison and Kathleen Wilson-Thompson as Board Directors

#130

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

golfer wrote: post #88

Bruce Scott, the co-founder of Oracle says, “I remember Larry very distinctly telling me one time: Bruce, we can’t be successful unless we lie to customers.” And adds: “All the things that you would read in books of somebody being a leader, he wasn’t. But he was tenacious; he would never give up on anything.” [0] Elon stretches the truth constantly. Should be a good fit. [0]: https://techcrunch.com/2010/12/01/larry-e…

> But he was tenacious; he would never give up on anything.

To be fair, in my mind this is the one most common trait I find in successful entrepreneurs and leaders. I've seen leaders who I didn't think were particularly bright, or extroverted, or empathic, but man, did they not get stressed out by obstacles that came in their way. They either sidestepped them or overcame them, but they did not dwell on them and let those obstacles lead to self doubt.

This is one reason why I think sociopaths are over-represented in leadership positions. They are not burdened by a conscience that can lead to self doubt in times of stress. Of course, it's possible to have this "does not get discouraged by big obstacles" attitude and not be a sociopath, but it is certainly an area where sociopaths have a natural advantage.