Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

detroitnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 153 posts

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#131

Post by alexanderwept »

Jarbooski wrote: post #94
vvanders wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a damage checklist a Tesla specific problem? Bought plenty of cars(and trucks and tractors) where I went over them at delivery. Found more than a few things of which were sorted out by the dealer at the time.

Buyers are literally warning each other to look for specific things that should be caught by QA, because if you leave the lot, Tesla won't fix it. This isn't "make sure there are no marks!", it's "make sure all the bolts are there!". Unheard of. Again, look for yourself, the information is public.

It's not unheard of at all - astute car buyers know how to read VINs to find better/worse cars. Ask VW fans if they know how to tell if a car was built in Germany or Mexico - it's in the first character of the vin. Car build quality is a complicated subject but it's generally understood that some manufacturers do better than others.

We'd be surprised if someone found missing bolts on the vehicles at a Lexus dealer, but if you heard of someone's new Range Rover having problems, it would par for the course. The consensus opinion of automotive build quality rankings is generally that Tesla is below average but it's not the worst. Elon Musk is on the record benchmarking Toyota so at least he knows where to put the bullseye.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#132

Post by alexanderwept »

sytelus wrote: post #122
ams6110 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aftermarket warrantees and add ons are nearly pure profit. That's why they push them. They probably make more selling the warranty than they do selling the car itself.

This doesn't happen with other franchises like McDonnalds or Subway or 7-11. These franchise owners are not allowed to load up snake oil on customers, they deeply care about brand experience and all goods+services are tightly controlled in exchange for monopoly over some territory. Many of these franchises don't even have huge margins or profits. Car manufacturers somehow aren't able to do this.

It's really only an American problem. Car manufacturers sell directly to consumers in most countries.

I have a hunch that dealer franchise laws generally make it tough for manufacturers to really make it competitive to be a car dealer. Generally the States mandate that car manufacturers have some good faith shown towards the dealers and dealers seem to play ball with the manufacturers - I'm pretty sure Nissan and Jeep dealers semi-routinely structure their vehicle purchases to help the manufacturer hit goals/benchmarks.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#133

Post by __derek__ »

sytelus wrote: post #122
ams6110 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aftermarket warrantees and add ons are nearly pure profit. That's why they push them. They probably make more selling the warranty than they do selling the car itself.

This doesn't happen with other franchises like McDonnalds or Subway or 7-11. These franchise owners are not allowed to load up snake oil on customers, they deeply care about brand experience and all goods+services are tightly controlled in exchange for monopoly over some territory. Many of these franchises don't even have huge margins or profits. Car manufacturers somehow aren't able to do this.

Car manufacturers aren't able to do it because the car dealership lobby is a powerful one in state governments.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#134

Post by throwaway98121 »

Jarbooski wrote: post #49
hueving wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to pay the dealer's quote, then car salesmen will love you and you'll have a great time at a dealership anyway. The entire bullshit process begins when you try to get a price that doesn't have thousands of extra dollars in for the dealership.

And how is that different than paying full pin at Tesla?

Tesla has a fixed price on all vehicles. With dealers, each dealer has their own price and will haggle the crap out of you, try to up sell you things you don’t want, and even be shady with the actual paperwork that you have to read and reread carefully to ensure there aren’t any surprises.

Tesla doesn’t do that. It’s a fixed price. Although I wouldn’t drop 35-50k on a new vehicle for their base models, I respect Tesla for eliminating the hassle of working with dealers.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#135

Post by throwaway98121 »

Jarbooski wrote: post #44
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month. I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit. I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in car sales or car sales management and not in a good way. Anyway…

> That being said, I hope the dealership model dies and these blood sucking, anti competitive conmen have to fall to a more honest way of living What an ignorant comment. A huge portion of dealerships are small business owners in small towns. Honest, middle class people who care about serving customers. This is all beside the point that Tesla has in no way proven their system works. In fact, as time goes on they are…

I’ve bought 5 brand new cars in my life time. All vehicles were purchased in small towns in Kansas, Texas, and Tennessee. During that process, I dealt with over a dozen dealers. Every time, it was the same shady practices.

My comment reflects my experiences.

Considering your comment history attacking Tesla in this larger thread in favor of dealers and this particular comment, I assume you are affiliated with some dealer.

Calling me ignorant doesn’t solve any problem. If you are a stakeholder in a dealership business, try raising the bar a bit and provide an honest, hassle free and upfront experience to your customers. By attacking a frustrated customer (who isn’t a customer anymore because of the crooked sales tactics), you’re not helping your case.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#136

Post by masonic »

clouddrover wrote: post #84
RickJWagner wrote: post #56

I like the idea of a Tesla, but I can't justify the cost. I hope they sell a ton of them and the cars go through the usual depreciation cycle. Maybe then.

If the idea is an EV with good range at a better price, then there's the Hyundai Kona: https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-shockingly-... The Kona's quite efficient. It recently finished second in an EV efficiency race: https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-electr...

The local SV dealer told me March for the Kona EV.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#137

Post by _ph_ »

cjhopman wrote: post #121
_ph_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During 2019, cheaper versions with a smaller battery are expected, maybe even hitting the promised 35k for the entry level model. But probably still limited to the black color, others cost extra.

Sure, but that was also true of 2017.

Tesla was quite explicit, that deliveries of the Model 3 started with the high end models first and work downwards from there. They actually started with a middle level model - long range battery but only rear wheel drive. That the production ramp-up was slower than hoped for is known. Mid 2018 they added the AWD model and the performance AWD model, later the mid-range rear wheel drive. Next step, that is clearly communicated by Tesla, will be the standard range battery. For that, they will build a new smaller and cheaper battery pack - the mid range has the same pack as the long range, just with fewer cells in it.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#138

Post by jjeaff »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #127
sytelus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't happen with other franchises like McDonnalds or Subway or 7-11. These franchise owners are not allowed to load up snake oil on customers, they deeply care about brand experience and all goods+services are tightly controlled in exchange for monopoly over some territory. Many of these franchises don't even have huge margins or profits. Car manufacturers somehow aren't able to do this.

McDonalds is a real estate company that happens to also sell an occasional hamburger. The FDA requires that hamburgers not be cooked in snake oil.

McDonald's corporate makes a lot of money on real estate. But every franchise is making it purely on those "occasional" burgers. It is that revenue that pays for the real estate.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#139

Post by jjeaff »

joshfraser wrote: post #55
gnicholas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> say you're paying cash & are willing to pay $100 over the manufacturer's invoice It's good to research what the invoice price is, but this isn't their actual cost. Manufacturers offer incentives to dealerships based on all sorts of things, including hitting certain sales goals. These rebates aren't factored into the invoice price, so even buying at invoice isn't always an amazing deal. My understanding is that the…

That's true. You're probably still getting screwed, but quite a bit less than everyone else. If you don't want to get screwed at all, don't buy a new car from a dealership.

Ya, all this talk of how to get a good deal... There is no such thing at a new car dealership. Wait until the car has 20,000 miles on it. Get it for way, way less.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#140

Post by justtopost »

dkhenry wrote: post #107
linksnapzz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~42K for a base domestic pickup might be MSRP. The actual transaction price is much, much less.

That is the actual transaction cost. The MSRP is lower for base model's but most cars sold are not base models.

You specifically stated base model price in your post. Why are you arguing?
Post reply on HN