Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla • Hacker News Board

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#91

Post by mrdoops » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:31 AM UTC

shwoopdiwoop wrote: post #71

mrdoops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping existing car companies from doing direct sales like Tesla? Removing barriers to customers giving you money is generally a win. How many Tesla's were purchased in the last year that wouldn't have been if the stressful dealership was in the way? How about a subscription / lease deal where they ship you the new model every year? Sell a cheaper tier for the 2nd year used vehicles. Do telemetry on driver s…

Volvo is doing exactly that, it’s called Volvo Care if I’m not mistaken and includes some newer cars, service, maintenance, winter tires etc in a monthly fee.

Seems like Toyota Connected has similar projects in development - although maybe more focused for on-demand capabilities. Electric and self-driving capabilities aside - this sort of service subscription seems to have no major technological barriers; largely an operations + software problem. Seems like a good way to transition dealerships into service outlets towards larger scale fleet management.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#92

Post by CydeWeys » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

dkhenry wrote: post #72

nightski wrote: post #37

The cheapest Tesla will be $46k once the tax credit expires at the end of the year. While that is a lot cheaper than before, it's still out of reach of the vast majority of Americans. I'm rooting for Tesla but that is a huge gap to close.

The top selling automobile in America (Ford F150), has a base price of 43k. The Second best selling automobile ( Chevy Silverado ) is at 42k. In total the Average sale price of an automobile in America is 34k Tesla is still above that, but not by much. I think people discount how much all those trucks and SUV's they see rolling around cost.

The F-150 has a base price of $28k. The Chevy Silverado also has a base price of $28k. Those are MSRPs, so you can get them cheaper with bargaining, though of course the average person ends up paying more because they're adding on options.

I have no idea where you're getting those $43k figures from??

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#93

Post by mikeash » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:38 AM UTC

pkaye wrote: post #83

hueving wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to pay the dealer's quote, then car salesmen will love you and you'll have a great time at a dealership anyway. The entire bullshit process begins when you try to get a price that doesn't have thousands of extra dollars in for the dealership.

Isn't this the same for Tesla? You have to accept tesla's quote with no negotiation?

It’s different because with Tesla you can’t negotiate. The price is the price, take it or leave it. With a traditional dealership, you can refrain from negotiating, but then you’re leaving money on the table, potentially thousands of dollars.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#94

Post by Jarbooski » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:41 AM UTC

vvanders wrote: post #57

Jarbooski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how come I read people on Twitter asking Elon why they were forced to sign papers before being able to see the car they bought? Or having to follow a delivery damage checklist to make sure they don't buy damaged goods? That's unheard of in my life of buying cars from anyone else.

Why is a damage checklist a Tesla specific problem? Bought plenty of cars(and trucks and tractors) where I went over them at delivery. Found more than a few things of which were sorted out by the dealer at the time.

Buyers are literally warning each other to look for specific things that should be caught by QA, because if you leave the lot, Tesla won't fix it. This isn't "make sure there are no marks!", it's "make sure all the bolts are there!".

Unheard of. Again, look for yourself, the information is public.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#95

Post by Jarbooski » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

lloydde wrote: post #75

Jarbooski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how come I read people on Twitter asking Elon why they were forced to sign papers before being able to see the car they bought? Or having to follow a delivery damage checklist to make sure they don't buy damaged goods? That's unheard of in my life of buying cars from anyone else.

Common in my experience receiving goods on delivery. Take your time. They understand.

Your anecdote differs from what I read on the Tesla forums and Twitter, where pepe are being rushed to sign. Go see for yourself, there are many posts. Big oil conspiracy?

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#96

Post by Jarbooski » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:44 AM UTC

TwoBit wrote: post #61

Jarbooski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how come I read people on Twitter asking Elon why they were forced to sign papers before being able to see the car they bought? Or having to follow a delivery damage checklist to make sure they don't buy damaged goods? That's unheard of in my life of buying cars from anyone else.

Why would you care about paper signing? I'm pretty sure they could find your car for you before signing if you cared. They did that for me, not that I would care much. I don't understand your delivery damage checklist statement. But if that's the worst people are reporting about Tesla sales practices then lol.

If you think that's the worst thing people are complaining about, you aren't paying attention.

But this is the same community that didn't see the Theranos fraud, either. Blind eye for Silicon Valley.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#97

Post by mikeash » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:46 AM UTC

clircle wrote: post #13

throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month. I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit. I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in car sales or car sales management and not in a good way. Anyway…

Can you elaborate on your horrible experience? I bought a new car for the first time this year. I went to the Toyota dealer with my wife, we drove three cars, and decided the Corolla iM would be enough for 95% of our needs. We came back the next day and filled out all the paper work. Of course, they did try to get us to buy a bunch of pointles s addons and insurances, so it was annoying to have to say "No" over and o…

I had an unusual Toyota experience that really pissed me off.

The buying experience was ok. Negotiating the price was annoying but I called a bunch of places for quotes, asking each one to beat the last one, and stopped when they started to say they couldn’t. Everything was fine until much later when I was buying my next car and trading this one in. Turned out the dealer had filed a lien with their finance division even though I bought the car outright. Just finding the right person to contact was a major pain. (Toyota Financial had to do the work to release the lien, but they wouldn’t do it for me. The dealership had to ask them.) Once I did, I had to call repeatedly to get them to move with any sort of speed. (I discovered this problem on Monday and was trying to buy on Tuesday.)

I realize this is not the typical experience, but it certainly left me eager to see the whole dealership system burn to the ground.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#98

Post by mikeash » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:48 AM UTC

mr_luc wrote: post #76

mdeeks wrote: post #66

I was surprised by some of the cost benefits of EV. I did a rough total cost of ownership for my wife's Model 3 vs my Audi A4. Over five years (@17k miles per year) it came out to the Model 3 being ~$10k cheaper than the A4 despite the Model 3 having a higher sticker price. Because I know it will come up, I know these prices are not reasonable for most people and certainly far from the promised $35k. This is just a c…

Ah, that's an interesting breakdown. For me, those numbers boiled down to "a Tesla M3 is $10k cheaper than an A4 because it gets $10k of government rebates" - 7500 : Federal tax credit - 2500 : California rebate Of course, the argument is that fossil fuel vehicles are the beneficiaries of unaccounted-for negative externalities, and that these rebates rectify that somewhat. But it's interesting that the A4 would other…

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some price drops across Tesla’s lineup next week when their federal tax credit gets cut in half.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#99

Post by vvanders » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:50 AM UTC

Jarbooski wrote: post #94

vvanders wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a damage checklist a Tesla specific problem? Bought plenty of cars(and trucks and tractors) where I went over them at delivery. Found more than a few things of which were sorted out by the dealer at the time.

Buyers are literally warning each other to look for specific things that should be caught by QA, because if you leave the lot, Tesla won't fix it. This isn't "make sure there are no marks!", it's "make sure all the bolts are there!". Unheard of. Again, look for yourself, the information is public.

Huh. Not my experience at all.

Had a loose headboard near the sunroof. Had an appt and fixed inside of a week. I'm sure there's outliers as there would be with any high volume product but I find it suspect that these type of things wouldn't get sorted out in warranty.

For what it's worth I've seen much worse. Our last tractor we bought didn't have a driveshaft connected(!) so 4WD was kaput. Once that was sorted someone put a bell housing on in reverse so it was making a lovely metal-on-metal sound(!). This is all from a very well regarded brand and a high volume dealer. Screw ups happen but unless you're dealing with a fly-by-night company they'll get sorted out since everyone hates bad press.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#100

Post by acct1771 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:54 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #52

joshfraser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a month in college at a car dealership and it was every bit as shady as you think. My boss asked me to help him pass the drug test by loaning him some urine (I declined). One time after closing the sale of a car, the shop swapped out some damaged parts and claimed the new owner was responsible. It was at night so he hadn't noticed the damage before driving off the lot. There was also a nonstop flood of w…

Every salesman had a kid the same age as the customers or a cousin who worked at the same company I had a sales manager at a used car dealership tell me he went to the Air Force Academy (my alma mater) after he asked about my college. Little did he know we have a "secret handshake" of sorts, which he was completely clueless about. Ended up calling him on it and he backed off of his high pressure sales bullshit.

Tell me you didn't give that lowlife a sale.