Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

jeffgeerling.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 170 posts

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#41

Post by viraptor »

userbinator wrote: post #19

I have tried to read the BlueTooth specs a few times, never really getting anywhere, and am amazed that it all (mostly) works given the immense complexity in those standards[1]. Thus I'm not surprised that bugs like this can occur. [1] The BT5 core spec is freely downloadable. It is a 25MB PDF with over 2800 pages. That's just the core, there are other specifications that layer on top of it.

Same. I tried to debug why does my Ford sometimes get stuck in a state where it disconnects immediately after the phone starts playing. (Then fixes itself after a few days) I've learned many protocols, but BT was the worst experience. Had to give up rather than deciphering the mess...

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#42

Post by snazz »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year,…

Bluetooth is equally or more universal than Wi-Fi, though. There aren’t that many connectivity standards that are present in just about every single device under the sun, including stuff like headsets and wireless mice and keyboards. It’s effectively wireless USB (from a user perspective), with all the good and the bad that that brings.

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#43

Post by dmitrygr »

darawk wrote: post #27
userbinator wrote: post #19

I have tried to read the BlueTooth specs a few times, never really getting anywhere, and am amazed that it all (mostly) works given the immense complexity in those standards[1]. Thus I'm not surprised that bugs like this can occur. [1] The BT5 core spec is freely downloadable. It is a 25MB PDF with over 2800 pages. That's just the core, there are other specifications that layer on top of it.

I'm curious, to people here who are technically familiar with the standard, do you think this complexity is justified, or is it a case of an over-engineered protocol?

It has 20 years of organic growth and includes a lot of lessons learned from the initial underspecification. Lots of profiles were specified but never used (video delivery, over bluetooth, anyone?). Many were not fully thought through and had to be revised (often in nasty ways to remain backwards-compatible). Sadly backwards compatibility makes it worse and worse every year. If you go and write a stack that complies with the spec 100%, you'll find that it works with maybe 50% of devices out there.

BT 4.0 was a chance to start over, and it will help a lot, in time... BT 5.1 will likely finally bring stereo audio over BT LE, with a cleaner spec than A2DP is. But once again, until all the EDR (classic) devices out there are trashed, BT classic remains a huge pain in everyone's rear and a mandatory thing to support. How soon is that? More than 10 years from now! Why? Cars are a major BT use case and many still ship with BT 2.1 car kits. People do not replace cars as easily as headphones.

source: i work on this currently

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#45

Post by freshhawk »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year,…

My reaction to reading that this happened when the microphone was turned on was also a mental "well yeah, welcome to Bluetooth".

I have literally shifted my rating scale for crap technology completely to make room for Bluetooth to be far enough below everything else.

The nice part is a monkey brain interprets that as everything getting better, so I am generally more content with software and tech in general. So, thanks Bluetooth?

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#46

Post by freshhawk »

dmitrygr wrote: post #43
darawk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, to people here who are technically familiar with the standard, do you think this complexity is justified, or is it a case of an over-engineered protocol?

It has 20 years of organic growth and includes a lot of lessons learned from the initial underspecification. Lots of profiles were specified but never used (video delivery, over bluetooth, anyone?). Many were not fully thought through and had to be revised (often in nasty ways to remain backwards-compatible). Sadly backwards compatibility makes it worse and worse every year. If you go and write a stack that complies…

> source: i work this currently

You have my deepest condolences. Thank you for your sacrifice.

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#47

Post by DiabloD3 »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #39
DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year,…

Interesting. On Windows 10, it shows a in/out "Headset (AirPods Hands-Free)" and an out only "Headphones (AirPods Audio)." So this transition would be very easy for the user to see. However, I've as yet been unable to get a straight answer on what profile the "Headphones" mode is actually using.

A2DP SBC.

Apple products that implement AAC over A2DP only do so on iOS devices (and in only limited cases), and also do not implement anything else (such as any form of AptX, or LDAC).

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#48

Post by vkou »

snazz wrote: post #42
DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year,…

Bluetooth is equally or more universal than Wi-Fi, though. There aren’t that many connectivity standards that are present in just about every single device under the sun, including stuff like headsets and wireless mice and keyboards. It’s effectively wireless USB (from a user perspective), with all the good and the bad that that brings.

I've never had the left half of my keyboard crap out when I plugged it into a USB port.

I have never gotten both the input, and the output half of a bluetooth headset to work on Windows 10. But that's understandable, since I'm sure Microsoft is strapped for resources, and has more important things to work on - like the bricking the data in My Documents in an OS update.

Even if you don't want the microphone to work, getting sound to come out of a BT headset on Windows 10 is a struggle in itself.

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#49

Post by geerlingguy »

gtirloni wrote: post #34

I only skimmed the article but I didn't see Bluetooth profiles mentioned: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles It's likely switching from A2DP to HSP because the microphone is activated. This is very common with Bluetooth headsets and it's what still makes me choose corded headsets to this day. Newest Bluetooth reviews are supposed to have more bandwidth for high quality audio but I'm stuck with…

I know that’s what happens, but the bug is that it stays in that mode even after the VM has relinquished its claim on the microphone.

Note that this only started happening in this particular scenario after 10.14. It happens in other scenarios from time to time (that is, it stays in HSP even after the app requesting mic use is quit).

Re: AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

#50

Post by TylerE »

freshhawk wrote: post #45
DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year,…

My reaction to reading that this happened when the microphone was turned on was also a mental "well yeah, welcome to Bluetooth". I have literally shifted my rating scale for crap technology completely to make room for Bluetooth to be far enough below everything else. The nice part is a monkey brain interprets that as everything getting better, so I am generally more content with software and tech in general. So, than…

Would it be possible for the device to essentially expose itself as two devices, one stereo audio sink and one mono audio source?

I mean, yea, it's more of a pairing headache but it solves this whole class of problems without requiring cooperation from the other half of the system.

Post reply on HN