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Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

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Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#61

Post by TwoBit »

Jarbooski wrote: post #47
Zanni wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that haven't had the Tesla experience, it's a refreshing change of pace. They don't have dealerships, only showrooms and service centers. You can schedule a test drive at a showroom (or online), and your rep will be happy to help you configure your car right there if you decide to buy, but you can also go home and leisurely plan your configuration over the internet. You can see the price of every option bef…

So how come I read people on Twitter asking Elon why they were forced to sign papers before being able to see the car they bought? Or having to follow a delivery damage checklist to make sure they don't buy damaged goods? That's unheard of in my life of buying cars from anyone else.

Why would you care about paper signing? I'm pretty sure they could find your car for you before signing if you cared. They did that for me, not that I would care much. I don't understand your delivery damage checklist statement. But if that's the worst people are reporting about Tesla sales practices then lol.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#62

Post by [deleted] »

Zanni wrote: post #34
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month. I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit. I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in car sales or car sales management and not in a good way. Anyway…

For those that haven't had the Tesla experience, it's a refreshing change of pace. They don't have dealerships, only showrooms and service centers. You can schedule a test drive at a showroom (or online), and your rep will be happy to help you configure your car right there if you decide to buy, but you can also go home and leisurely plan your configuration over the internet. You can see the price of every option bef…

[deleted]

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#63

Post by Retric »

nightski wrote: post #37

The cheapest Tesla will be $46k once the tax credit expires at the end of the year. While that is a lot cheaper than before, it's still out of reach of the vast majority of Americans. I'm rooting for Tesla but that is a huge gap to close.

That’s way off the mark. The federal tax credit is only 7,500$ and it’s not removed only dropping ~4K.

As to affordability, it’s the used car market that attracts discount buyers making the sticker price largely irrelevant. Which is why even a new Honda Civic runs 20,000+$.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#64

Post by joshfraser »

EdJiang wrote: post #60
gnicholas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> say you're paying cash & are willing to pay $100 over the manufacturer's invoice It's good to research what the invoice price is, but this isn't their actual cost. Manufacturers offer incentives to dealerships based on all sorts of things, including hitting certain sales goals. These rebates aren't factored into the invoice price, so even buying at invoice isn't always an amazing deal. My understanding is that the…

Here's a decent article about how auto pricing has evolved beyond manufacturer's invoice due to the internet: https://clark.com/cars/eye-opening-truth-about-dealer-invoic...

Thanks for sharing. It's been over a decade since I worked at a dealership & obviously haven't kept up with the industry very much.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#65

Post by tomjakubowski »

Zanni wrote: post #34
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month. I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit. I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in car sales or car sales management and not in a good way. Anyway…

For those that haven't had the Tesla experience, it's a refreshing change of pace. They don't have dealerships, only showrooms and service centers. You can schedule a test drive at a showroom (or online), and your rep will be happy to help you configure your car right there if you decide to buy, but you can also go home and leisurely plan your configuration over the internet. You can see the price of every option bef…

For anyone who's gone through both, how does it it compare to BMW USA's online ordering?

https://www.bmwusa.com/byo.html#!/model-variant-selector/3-s...

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#66

Post by mdeeks »

I was surprised by some of the cost benefits of EV. I did a rough total cost of ownership for my wife's Model 3 vs my Audi A4. Over five years (@17k miles per year) it came out to the Model 3 being ~$10k cheaper than the A4 despite the Model 3 having a higher sticker price.

Because I know it will come up, I know these prices are not reasonable for most people and certainly far from the promised $35k. This is just a comparison for the Luxury segment we were shopping for.

My TCO notes below if you're curious or have feedback on things I'm missing:

    Fuel costs for Audi A4
    567 Gallons Gas 		: Assuming ~30 MPG
    * $3.64/gal			: Premium grade in SF, CA
    = $2063 / year

    Fuel costs for Tesla M3
    4116 kWh	 Electricity	: 4.13 miles/kWh (310 miles range / 75kWh battery) 
    * $0.13046/kWh		: PG&E off-peak rates (Winter, after 11pm)
    = $537 / year

    Tesla Fuel savings = $1526 / year

    Tesla Model 3 costs/rebate break down
    $ 56500		: Total cost (out the door)
    + 2685		: Electricity cost over 5 years
    + 1750		: Home charging plug installation + permit
    - 7500		: Federal tax credit
    - 2500		: California rebate
    - 500		: PG&E rebate
    + 5605		: Insurance cost over 5 years
    + ?			: Maintenance & Repair (Unknown, but expected to be much less than Audi)
    ---
    = $56040	: Grand total

    Audi A4 costs break down
    $ 50226		: Total cost (out the door)
    + 10315		: Gas cost over 5 years
    + 5845		: Insurance cost over 5 years
    + ?			: Maintenance & Repair (Unknown, but expected to be much more than Tesla)
    ---
    = $66386	: Grand total

    Tesla Model 3 is at least $10,346 cheaper for her to own over 5 years.

    Notes: 
    - This doesn't include resale value though articles I've seen mention that Tesla's hold their value as well or better than most Luxury cars.
    - She gets free charging at work so electricity costs will be a lot lower for the M3 than the worse case scenario I have above

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#67

Post by api »

mdeeks wrote: post #66

I was surprised by some of the cost benefits of EV. I did a rough total cost of ownership for my wife's Model 3 vs my Audi A4. Over five years (@17k miles per year) it came out to the Model 3 being ~$10k cheaper than the A4 despite the Model 3 having a higher sticker price. Because I know it will come up, I know these prices are not reasonable for most people and certainly far from the promised $35k. This is just a c…

Looks as if it's basically a wash without the tax incentives, which is kind of amazing really. The cost of EVs will fall, so this means they will be cheaper than ICE cars without tax incentives very soon.

This could tip quickly. No wonder petrostates are freaking out.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#68

Post by _ph_ »

nightski wrote: post #37

The cheapest Tesla will be $46k once the tax credit expires at the end of the year. While that is a lot cheaper than before, it's still out of reach of the vast majority of Americans. I'm rooting for Tesla but that is a huge gap to close.

During 2019, cheaper versions with a smaller battery are expected, maybe even hitting the promised 35k for the entry level model. But probably still limited to the black color, others cost extra.

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#69

Post by gnicholas »

mdeeks wrote: post #66

I was surprised by some of the cost benefits of EV. I did a rough total cost of ownership for my wife's Model 3 vs my Audi A4. Over five years (@17k miles per year) it came out to the Model 3 being ~$10k cheaper than the A4 despite the Model 3 having a higher sticker price. Because I know it will come up, I know these prices are not reasonable for most people and certainly far from the promised $35k. This is just a c…

Dan Neil (WSJ auto columnist) just wrote an article coming to the same conclusion.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/think-electric-vehicles-are-gre...

Re: Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla

#70

Post by vkou »

phil248 wrote: post #43
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month. I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit. I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in car sales or car sales management and not in a good way. Anyway…

As a general response to all of the hatred directed at dealerships, I'd mention that I've experienced none of this nonsense when leasing a car.

I've experienced none of this nonsense when buying a 4-year used car at a dealer. I came in, did the test drive, the sticker price was reasonable compared to craigslist, I bitched that the tires were on their last legs, argued down $400, wrote a cheque, and was done.

The most time-intensive part of this process was signing all the paperwork, and playing telephone games with an insurance agency.

I'd still, for all the obvious reasons, prefer to shop and buy on-line.

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