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Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

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Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#331
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they mean by "lose money"? Even if I turn up at a private hospital here in Norway, I pay nowhere near what you would pay in the US. Which tells me that either hospitals are run extremely inefficiently in the US (orders of magnitude worse than here) or there are layers of pretty substantial profit margins. I may be a bit peculiar, but I think a healthcare sector that is set up to mainly benefit execs and share…

Medicare reimbursements are below cost of care. If all insurance lowered to Medicare reimbursements, you will reduce supply.

That’s what most providers claim. In my experience (healthcare Corp finance), it’s typically closer to breaking even on Medicare. Especially if you cut out some fluff/unnecessary spending companies like to engage in. I’ve worked with Medicare and they actually try to do a bottoms up, zero based, pricing to determine what something should cost. So when a hospital is built by some award winning architect and has fountains and statues etc. Medicare doesn’t cover that (donors often do in the hospital example, but not other lines of services). I often have to explain to C suites that Medicare should be seen as a high volume that basically helps break even thus covers your fixed costs in entirety and making commercial patients all the more profitable.

That said, every branch of healthcare works different and could be upside down from this where they make a ton on Medicare but not commercial

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#332
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From one of the world's foremost experts on the brain: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/revising-fault-line

I'll gladly read that in a textual format. Podcasts tend to be long-winded with a lot of useless fluff. If you have a link to one of his papers, I'll gladly peruse it.

https://www.amazon.com/Behave-Biology-Humans-Best-Worst/dp/1...

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patient shouldn't have to call the insurance provider to see where it is accepted. This is adding to the problem. Do you have insurance, yes or no? Should be a good he only question not add-ons like, what provider, etc. It's stupid as hell that certain doctors are in network at a hospital while others are out of network, at the same damn facility. Ask me how I know this. American Healthcare insurance and billing…

> The patient shouldn't have to call the insurance provider to see where it is accepted But this is actually the one that provides the service. You dont call the music band to ask about the prices ticketek charges. You should and can ask about the price without insurance and you might get an answer (though you wont like it).

See other comments in this thread about where that question gets you. My experience has not been any different. IE, the answer ranges from "I can't tell you until the procedure is done", to exorbitant quotes. Of course I don't like those answers, who does?

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#334
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you should ask an expert on obesity. I'm not one, so if their judgment differs from mine, I'll stand corrected. But until then, I'll be of the opinion that most obesity cases are not genetic. You're saying you have no expertise in this, haven't spent any time reading the literature or consulting with experts, but you nonetheless are going to continue having a strong opinion on this question? What is the basis for t…

I can ask you the same thing, but in reverse. What is your strong opinion on believing that people should have no responsibility for the obesity, when we know it is caused mostly by over-eating? Why do you presume people are completely hopeless at controlling what they put in their stomach? How many experts did you consult with to form your opinion?

> What is your strong opinion on believing that people should have no responsibility for the obesity, when we know it is caused mostly by over-eating?

We don't know that obesity is caused mostly by over-eating.

Many basic questions about diet are unsolved, including the reason(s) that some people gain weight while others don't and the reasons that the vast majority of people can't lose weight. We just do not know to what extent do genetics, gut flora, lifestyle, and diet affect weight. We also don't know what makes for a "good" diet, or whether the same diet is good for everyone.

This is not obscure knowledge. Literally if you google "what causes obesity?" you'll get pages like this: https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/healthy-li...

> How many experts did you consult with to form your opinion?

I spend a lot of social time around doctors, and I read a fair amount of medical literature (for someone who isn't in the medical sciences, anyway).

I am not claiming to be an expert, but I am claiming to be somewhat informed, yes.

I am also claiming, more strongly, that before we as a society punish someone for causing something we'd better be pretty damn sure that the person actually did cause the thing, with mens rea and so on. I am claiming that the scientific evidence is not there for obesity.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#335
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From one of the world's foremost experts on the brain: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/revising-fault-line

I'll gladly read that in a textual format. Podcasts tend to be long-winded with a lot of useless fluff. If you have a link to one of his papers, I'll gladly peruse it.

BTW this podcast episode is literally talking about exactly the question that you were asking, namely, to what extent can people have responsibility for actions?

Might be worth your time at 2x speed. Or not, I dunno.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#336
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can ask you the same thing, but in reverse. What is your strong opinion on believing that people should have no responsibility for the obesity, when we know it is caused mostly by over-eating? Why do you presume people are completely hopeless at controlling what they put in their stomach? How many experts did you consult with to form your opinion?

> What is your strong opinion on believing that people should have no responsibility for the obesity, when we know it is caused mostly by over-eating? We don't know that obesity is caused mostly by over-eating. Many basic questions about diet are unsolved, including the reason(s) that some people gain weight while others don't and the reasons that the vast majority of people can't lose weight. We just do not know to…

> We don't know that obesity is caused mostly by over-eating.

No, that part is obvious and we do know that more calories results in more weight. There's no debate. The only debate is in what causes over-eating.

> Many basic questions about diet are unsolved, including the reason(s) that some people gain weight while others don't and the reasons that the vast majority of people can't lose weight. We just do not know to what extent do genetics, gut flora, lifestyle, and diet affect weight. We also don't know what makes for a "good" diet, or whether the same diet is good for everyone.

Also flat out not true. You're creating some ridiculous standard for "knowledge" when in reality, you only have to have "good enough" knowledge in order to be healthy and not obese. Most people can easily adhere to, but for whatever reason, don't.

> This is not obscure knowledge. Literally if you google "what causes obesity?" you'll get pages like this: https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/healthy-li....

Yes, and? The answers are not equally weighted. Just because there are 3 answers, doesn't mean each answer is equally responsible in the cause of obesity.

> I am not claiming to be an expert, but I am claiming to be somewhat informed, yes.

I am claiming the same. My parents are biomolecular scientists and for them it is not contentious that overeating causes obesity. If we're giving weight to anecdotal evidence, I'm entitled to at least give my own evidence the same weight as you do yours.

> I am claiming that the scientific evidence is not there for obesity.

And there are people claiming that anthropogenic global warming is a myth, despite scientific evidence otherwise. However, I'll take claims that are true (overeating causes obesity - replicated many times), over claims that may or may not be true.

Please realize that you're in the minority on this, but the science is already settled. It's ok to admit that you're wrong.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#337
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works for non-urgent care and when estimates are cheap enough to encourage shopping around. Although even free estimates cost you time.

Most health care is non urgent.

To underline this, the amount of money spent on emergency care (the kind where you might not have the opportunity to get an estimate) is in the single digit percentages, and may be as low as 2%.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct...

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#338
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors don't know the prices, and neither do the customers (not without doing a lot of homework that can't be done during emergencies). Even when you know the list prices, the actual prices your insurance negotiates are almost certainly different, so asking for list prices isn't enough. Basically, in the U.S. the healthcare system is not exactly a free market as pricing signals are unclear, and most consumers have n…

My wife owns and operates a private medical practice (she's an audiologist), and it's insane the way she has to do billing and accounts receivable. When a patient asks about prices she quotes them her standard price for the necessary services and calls their insurance company to confirm that the patient is covered and check what kind of copay the patient needs to pay. Assuming the patient is satisfied with the result…

In a world of pre-1990s, high-deductible, 80/20 insurance, this would happen less as the insurance company might not do the 800lb gorilla thing until the patient maxes their deductibles, and high deductibles give the consumer a strong incentive to negotiate directly with the provider.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of things are pretty close to perfect competition Grocery stores, sandwich shops, coffee houses, clothing stores, coin laundromats, circuit design, postal carriers, kitchen utensils and serving equipment, rental cars, housekeeping things like brooms and dustpans, bouquets and flowers, nuts bolts and fasteners, airlines... Essentially anything where the brands are fairly indistinguishable and you have a hard ti…

Eyeglasses, at least, are a monopoly controlled by one company, Luxottica. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/anaswanson/2014/09/10/meet-the-...

I get mine at one of the myriad of online retailers, who seem to be outside the clutches of that corporation. There's no restrictions duties or tariffs on importing eyewear in the US and the prescription sheets are technical and specific enough to be fairly language independent.

The internet disrupts consumer by consumer and product by product, not industry by industry.

Going to a brick and mortar certainly appears cost prohibitive once you get used to paying $10 for stylish fitted pairs of prescription glasses.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#340
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors don't know the prices, and neither do the customers (not without doing a lot of homework that can't be done during emergencies). Even when you know the list prices, the actual prices your insurance negotiates are almost certainly different, so asking for list prices isn't enough. Basically, in the U.S. the healthcare system is not exactly a free market as pricing signals are unclear, and most consumers have n…

My wife owns and operates a private medical practice (she's an audiologist), and it's insane the way she has to do billing and accounts receivable. When a patient asks about prices she quotes them her standard price for the necessary services and calls their insurance company to confirm that the patient is covered and check what kind of copay the patient needs to pay. Assuming the patient is satisfied with the result…

It should be sustainable for patients to directly pay for the provider for the services directly for most medical care.
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