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Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

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Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#21

Post by goldcd »

MartinCron wrote: post #14
deanmoriarty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found your story intriguing, as I struggled with something similar, and very much know what that feeling you described is. I would love to know, in hindsight: why did the company decide to replace you on something that you loved doing? Was this a case of under performance and the new person effectively performed much better than you, or something else? I have been victim of being replaced on something that I loved…

I don’t think in my case that it was necessarily about me and my performance. Just like I don’t think that the OP’s story is necessarily about him and his performance. When teams grow, they change. There is an all-too-often unspoken assumption that roles will get more and more specialized as the team expands. You can go from being a dev/pm/architect/analyst to being “just a dev” or “just an architect” so slowly that…

That's a metaphor that I know is now stuck permanently. My only addition would be that this is your broccoli and ice-cream. I'm eternally mystified as to what some of my colleagues like. Maybe the greatest benefit of agile I found is I can just shove my needs/rankings into it - and can then just let people pull out whatever they fancy from it. Running the other way there seemed to be surprise when a dev found some major issue or came up with some great idea and I was more than happy for them to add it themselves - and I'd happily rank up it at the cost of one of my planned features. I get the distinct impression that previous occupiers of my role were less flexible. What I've done (I hope) is just to be as open as possible about what "I like" and be open, consistent and say the same thing to anybody who asks.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#22

Post by goldcd »

gaius wrote: post #20
melonbar wrote: post #12

One of my buddies on the dev team I am on has been going through a very similar situation. He has worked there much longer than myself yet he ends up with most of the drudge work. Instead of working on cool full-stack JS PWAs and SPAs he is stuck putting content on WordPress sites and fixing WP plugins. He has on occasion asked me how I managed to get all the fun stuff despite being so new. My advice to him was as fo…

He has worked there much longer than myself yet he ends up with most of the drudge work. Instead of working on cool full-stack JS PWAs and SPAs he is stuck putting content on WordPress sites and fixing WP plugins Your friend’s mistake is that he is too professional, doing the work that needs doing and pays everyone else’s salaries, while other more selfish people prioritise getting some more buzzwords on their CV. I…

I'd worry working anywhere where being "conscientious" isn't appreciated. From another thread I've got it stuck in my head that there is "broccoli" and "ice cream" work - and yes, if everybody concludes that WP work is "broccoli", somebody needs to eat it, and for now it's the person who can eat it the fastest is going to get landed with it.. ..then ask them what their ice cream is and make sure they get some. And maybe most importantly, be up-front that it's broccoli and that nobody likes it - but it's important.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#24

Post by qetuo13579 »

jstanier wrote: post #4

Have you had a conversation with your manager about this? If so, how did it go?

The engineering manager has been on leave while all this has been happening. I'll be bringing up my concerns when he's back next week. I'm sure he'll be quite understanding. He did reply to one email to point out that there isn't a lot he can do because the new PM reports directly to the CEO, not to him.

Basically the engineers will have multiple bosses. The engineering manager for technical direction and the project managers for task priorities and day to day management.

I think there is still a role for me to play as a senior engineer to mentor and assist the other engineers on their projects but it's harder for me to do this when I'm out of the loop.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#25

Post by qetuo13579 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #15
rvn1045 wrote: post #9

How does this work from the other side? are there people discussing they should collectively exclude someone? what are the conversations that are taking place. I have never been on the other side, so would like to see a perspective from there.

It's often a matter of convenience. Dealing with overseas people is hard especially if there is a time difference. They probably don't explicitly decide to exclude someone but instead it's too much work to include the person.

I turned up one morning to find two of my coworkers in a project meeting conference call with the PM. Later in my weekly "all projects" call with the PM I asked why I wasn't invited. She told me it wasn't my project. She also doesn't think it's necessary for me to continue attending the weekly "all projects" meetings where we discuss progress and priorities on all the engineering projects company wide (across 3 sites).

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#26

Post by gaius »

goldcd wrote: post #22
gaius wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has worked there much longer than myself yet he ends up with most of the drudge work. Instead of working on cool full-stack JS PWAs and SPAs he is stuck putting content on WordPress sites and fixing WP plugins Your friend’s mistake is that he is too professional, doing the work that needs doing and pays everyone else’s salaries, while other more selfish people prioritise getting some more buzzwords on their CV. I…

I'd worry working anywhere where being "conscientious" isn't appreciated. From another thread I've got it stuck in my head that there is "broccoli" and "ice cream" work - and yes, if everybody concludes that WP work is "broccoli", somebody needs to eat it, and for now it's the person who can eat it the fastest is going to get landed with it.. ..then ask them what their ice cream is and make sure they get some. And ma…

All managers see is that the work is getting done and no one is rocking the boat, they have zero incentive to look under the covers and see what’s really happening, then one day their unknown crucial engineer walks and they wonder why none of the self-promoting rockstars can do the bread-and-butter work, and what exactly those guys have been doing all this time.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#27

Post by senorsmile »

wjnc wrote: post #7
ptero wrote: post #6

> The company has recently hired an additional project manager overseas who has already started excluding me from project meetings. This is a big red flag. There may be innocent reasons (e.g., new PM wants to hold meetings at times convenient to him and his team and feels guilty inviting you to meetings at 2AM your time), but it is more often a prep for pushing old PM out the door. You have two options: change things…

Second this. There is nothing more professional than asking earnestly about changes, especially in more senior roles. If you still see a role for yourself in the company, create a sketch of the new situation and bring it to the table. If not, prepare for yourself what time you need to transition and offer them that as a way out. If they are hesitant to bring the changes to your table, help them with your openness to…

I agree with the above. I would also start actively looking. A similar thing happened to me, and I'm glad I was already in the process of interviewing BEFORE I asked a lot of questions.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#28

Post by maxxxxx »

qetuo13579 wrote: post #25
maxxxxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's often a matter of convenience. Dealing with overseas people is hard especially if there is a time difference. They probably don't explicitly decide to exclude someone but instead it's too much work to include the person.

I turned up one morning to find two of my coworkers in a project meeting conference call with the PM. Later in my weekly "all projects" call with the PM I asked why I wasn't invited. She told me it wasn't my project. She also doesn't think it's necessary for me to continue attending the weekly "all projects" meetings where we discuss progress and priorities on all the engineering projects company wide (across 3 sites…

I guess you really are being excluded!

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#29

Post by rdiddly »

Well, how did you end up "acting as the local manager?" Were you formally assigned to a named job role? Or were you a dev who stepped up to take on management duties? It sounds (mainly because of the word "acting" with all its connotations of being temporary and ad-hoc) like the latter. (Already I'm doing guesswork and reading tea leaves, just like you seem to be in your post. Can anybody talk to each other over there, or no?)

Anyway, maybe in the eyes of management you were handling two jobs, which maybe they appreciated, but as soon as they were able to rectify this, they helped you out by hiring someone to do the managing so you wouldn't have to. If they had the wrong idea about you (i.e. you prefer managing and now want to keep doing that) then you probably need to express your interest in management and advocate for why/how the company would benefit by your doing it.

But yeah in general people have the right to a clear job description that everyone agrees on, and to be able to review various duties as they apply to that, and accept or reject them, and to modify the job description if and when applicable.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle being sidelined gracefully?

#30

Post by atmosx »

qetuo13579 wrote: post #25
maxxxxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's often a matter of convenience. Dealing with overseas people is hard especially if there is a time difference. They probably don't explicitly decide to exclude someone but instead it's too much work to include the person.

I turned up one morning to find two of my coworkers in a project meeting conference call with the PM. Later in my weekly "all projects" call with the PM I asked why I wasn't invited. She told me it wasn't my project. She also doesn't think it's necessary for me to continue attending the weekly "all projects" meetings where we discuss progress and priorities on all the engineering projects company wide (across 3 sites…

It’s a good idea to start looking for a new gig, you never know, but better be proactive.
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