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Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

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Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#61
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read in the past Unix Hater's handbook, but I'm to young to have ever used LispM... I only see very few demos and feel Emacs like a poor's man remnant of them. I do not really know how much we lost. However, for a rare circumstance my first computer was a decommissioned SGI O₂ donated by family friend so I have the privilege of having use SGI CDE as my first desktop environment and growing up I see how much we l…

I never used LispM either, and the newsgroup I mentioned had messages from people that weren't even lispers but got their hands on one lisp machine and they had to admit there was something. That's the way of the world, things wave off, we follow along, unix won, wintel won, but that doesn't mean they were absolutely better, nor that we can't bring other good stuff from the past. We just have to keep an open mind.

I'll try to look for them :-)

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#62
post #56
post #24

IMO any "old enough" and complex enough software suffer some kind of "age&complexity" problems... No matter how you design it, unix choose simplicity and we see that today no real unix exists anymore (yes, they do exists per name, but in fact they do not follow unix principles), ITS, Emacs, LispM, Alto, ... choose integration and completeness and except Emacs they are essentially dead... Modern software try to choose…

>code mess mix of mbsync+notmuch+afew+homegrown crappy scripts Alpine and MUTT support IMAP just fine. Even s-nail supports it.

I'd like to have my mail on my computer, so a local maildir... In the past I've used pine and tried neomutt, while far better than classic Thunderbird/Evolution etc I do not feel much at home with them...

I'm at home now with my mix however even if it works really well and far better than any other things I tried it's still too complex for many people and that's not good because we need to attract young people to keep and feed the community instead of having all drooling behind the latest web(cr)app from one of the few supergiants...

Sometimes I do some talks about GNU/Linux mostly at my ex university and high school, normally people see a bit astonished and attracted my "dancing screen" with Emacs, they are willing to replicate at least part of my setup, they are willing to learn. But too many simply try and after few time quit in frustration because it's simply too long and complex for them.

Of course I know that good things can hardly be "for everyone" but we can provide better defaults. I've tried to give a sanitize personal config, it was a regular failure because few MELPA packages randomly disappear or fail to being properly auto-installed. I end up to give pre-made tarballs with a quick linking script and certainly that's not much a good business card especially if there are more and more few teachers that teach FOSS stuff and more and more books and lecture note that feel NO shame in suggesting proprietary software...

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#63
post #50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you have issues with touch keyboards in general. Understandable. Smartphone UIs are in general fucking terrible compared to the keyboard+mouse interfaces, which is why most people still use PCs to do real work. I've found that using Hacker's Keyboard conforms my muscle memory and lets me use a touch keyboard faster than I would otherwise be able to. It seems not everybody benefits from this.

Well... Hacker's Keyboard do make Termux usable , other keyboard completely fail, so I like it, I prize it but... It's like to say "jump from a mountain naked is really bad, jump with two open umbrellas, dressed with some kind of life-support inflated jacket and trying to fall in a lake instead on rocks is better"... When you say "most people still use PCs" like PCs was an obsolete thing makes me shiver. For me deskt…

As much as I agree with your sentiment that desktop computers are infinitely more useful than mobile devices, the reason that smartphones and tablets have succeeded is because they won over the idiot market (a.k.a. computer novices). There are an awful lot more computer novices/idiots out there than there are people who can appreciate the power of a desktop computer, so market forces make mobile devices dominate. Developers write applications for the users, and since the users are now on mobile devices, we get into a cycle of power where both the users and the applications are on one platform.

Unlike netbooks, which were underpowered laptops released ahead of their time, mobile devices have already hit their critical mass of users. Kids grow up with phones and tablets instead of computers, on average, which makes real computers a much scarier and less interesting proposition.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#64
post #63
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... Hacker's Keyboard do make Termux usable , other keyboard completely fail, so I like it, I prize it but... It's like to say "jump from a mountain naked is really bad, jump with two open umbrellas, dressed with some kind of life-support inflated jacket and trying to fall in a lake instead on rocks is better"... When you say "most people still use PCs" like PCs was an obsolete thing makes me shiver. For me deskt…

As much as I agree with your sentiment that desktop computers are infinitely more useful than mobile devices, the reason that smartphones and tablets have succeeded is because they won over the idiot market (a.k.a. computer novices). There are an awful lot more computer novices/idiots out there than there are people who can appreciate the power of a desktop computer, so market forces make mobile devices dominate. Dev…

No doubt, but consider a thing: the reason that now nearly anyone have a car does not justify the fact that we still have need for certain kind of cars for "skilled" drivers and work. So while I understand that the masses get a smartdevice I reject the actual trend of abandon desktop, simply because we can't do that without catastrophic consequences.

On education: personally I was taught a bit of unix at first even if my first computer came late (around 13/14 years old) and that's give me in very few time a set of skills I do not see even in many colleagues after years of professional work. Myself I learnt many thing in a very long time simply because I discover them casually and nobody help/taught me anything or nearly anything on them. Long story short: if we have proper school development of certain skills or at least a certain forma mentis/paradigma start to be easy and quick and pay off enormously during the entire rest of the life.

Of course I do not expect a phantasmagorical society formed entirely by PhDs and MDs but I certainly do expect a far different society with benefit for all of its components. The lack of competence and skill we observe these days, coupled with unemployment rates depict a clear scenario about that.

We have less and less competent people, we actually encourage people to be incompetent (like "hey coding at schools to forms legions of code monkeys able perhaps to write a hello world) saying the contrary, we obstacle due to the architecture of the schools, society, companies etc skilled people to express, cultivate and grow their potential and as a results we do not know how to evolve anymore.

We produce more and more crap, we have many companies more and more dependent on few, typically aging "consultants" the few that still know how to work etc.

That's can't last in the medium/long term and recovery is super-difficult and super-long.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#65
post #64
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I agree with your sentiment that desktop computers are infinitely more useful than mobile devices, the reason that smartphones and tablets have succeeded is because they won over the idiot market (a.k.a. computer novices). There are an awful lot more computer novices/idiots out there than there are people who can appreciate the power of a desktop computer, so market forces make mobile devices dominate. Dev…

No doubt, but consider a thing: the reason that now nearly anyone have a car does not justify the fact that we still have need for certain kind of cars for "skilled" drivers and work. So while I understand that the masses get a smartdevice I reject the actual trend of abandon desktop, simply because we can't do that without catastrophic consequences. On education: personally I was taught a bit of unix at first even i…

You make a really strong point about how our culture emphasizes the wrong values and how many of us are dumbed down by low expectations of competency. I'm interested in seeing what the future will look like when the current smartphone-addicted generation enters the workforce, but I also know a number of thirteen-year-olds who use Linux (some more seriously than others).

Maybe the only thing we can be grateful about is that it takes less to be on top(+)?

+: Of course, I know I'm certainly not on top, especially looking at some of the really impressive Show HNs that I see quite often, but compared to the people who I work with and the people around me in real life it doesn't take as much as you would think to be the best among them.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#66
post #2

I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad, given that it's a fantastically fast, light and low-power modern portable computer. But reading this gave me pause, I'm not sure I can dedicate as much time to this as it seems will be necessary...

I've been meaning to port it to Android too. It's really not that bad. It's a great, easy-to-hack system for porting.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#67
post #28
post #8

Last time this showed up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12830206 And for anyone else using Emacs on a Mac: 1. I use the plain vanilla GNU Emacs from here: https://emacsformacosx.com/ . It does flicker from time to time, but it doesn't bother me. 2. Some Mac users seem to prefer this: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsForMacOS It's supposed to be flicker-free, among other things, but doesn't play well with M…

On Mac I use the emacs-mac port by Mitsuharu Yamamoto: https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/overview which, in my opinion, works well. It can also be installed via brew (from source) or brew cask: https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport

Sorry, that's the one I meant to link above. Thanks for putting it up.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#68
post #34

Don't you dare write about emacs on Facebook! ;) (At least it works without JS.) Choice of platform aside, good article.

Does it work without JS? I had to turn it on to read..

Works for me with NoScript enabled in Firefox.

(It even works in emacs! https://i.imgur.com/NHI7Hh2.png)

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#69
post #65
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doubt, but consider a thing: the reason that now nearly anyone have a car does not justify the fact that we still have need for certain kind of cars for "skilled" drivers and work. So while I understand that the masses get a smartdevice I reject the actual trend of abandon desktop, simply because we can't do that without catastrophic consequences. On education: personally I was taught a bit of unix at first even i…

You make a really strong point about how our culture emphasizes the wrong values and how many of us are dumbed down by low expectations of competency. I'm interested in seeing what the future will look like when the current smartphone-addicted generation enters the workforce, but I also know a number of thirteen-year-olds who use Linux (some more seriously than others). Maybe the only thing we can be grateful about i…

I think you hit the mush. As you I see few talented young people, that thanks to today's web and computing acquire knowledge at a really high rate and are really willing and hungry to learn. But they are fewer and fewer. Also they tend to be skilled in a thing but totally unable to being "generically skilled", I mean: you are a damn smart guys, you discovered in substantial autonomy, without help or friendly environment around GNU/Linux and in few years you are proficient enough to surpass many "professional technician" and you can't even tie your shoes?! I know that we can't be omniscient, we have preference, we focus on something etc, that's ok. But I do not talk about being skilled in anything, only being able to be "smart" in your entire daily life...

I fear this future because while takes less to be on top we do not live to race, with live to live. We are not autonomous, we need society, other expertise and work and that's pose a super-big problem even egoistically for us. Not even counting for our society at a whole and for future generations...

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#70
post #22

I use emacs and vim quite rarely, only when I see potential benefit of it. Both have some amazing features but also seems to be locked in stone age on IT. In my opinion this is most deterring for new user - not "steep learning curve". I wonder why they refuse to open their eyes to current (or at least 2000's) state of technology. They cling to ancient foundation of their programs as something unmovable and unchangeab…

Funny enough Emacspeak for the blind totally owns any new GUI technology. They can do everything from inside: IM, web, news, coding, playing music, reading ebooks, MUD's, check the mainstream news... https://tvraman.github.io/emacspeak/applications.html Your reality and bullshit applications such as Electron based bloatwares are a bad joke against disabled people.

>Funny enough Emacspeak for the blind totally owns any new GUI technology. They can do everything from inside: IM, web, news, coding, playing music, reading ebooks, MUD's, check the mainstream news...

I didn't know this. For sure GUI are useless for persons with significant visual impairment. Thumbs up for Emacs developers for helping people in need.

> Your reality and bullshit applications such as Electron based bloatwares are a bad joke against disabled people.

"Electron" apps are not my reality. I didn't know what it is (until now).

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