[deleted]
Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
211–220 of 247 posts
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible. One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or p…
I think there's a pretty reasonable argument that 1) conditions for livestock are actually much better than those endured by animals in nature, and 2) living to eventually be slaughtered is better than never having lived at all.
There are a lot of documentaries (Earthlings, Dominion) or books (Eating Animals, Fast Food Nation) on animal agriculture that would give you a better counterpoint to #1 than I will in this comment. Or just Google image search "factory farm", "battery cage", "gestation crate".
If #2 justified animal agriculture it could also be used to justify human slavery, provided you intentionally bred humans for that purpose.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's impossible to take such an argument seriously. Why? It seems you are exactly proving my point: you've compartmentalized one as "ok cause we like it and do it now" and the other as "evil because it's bad and we don't do it anymore", but provide no argument as to why they are logically so incomparable. And your "final word on the subject" is apparently "meat tastes good and people like it." Forgive me if I'm not…
> Why? Because it's a non-sequitur. Slavery and diet have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You could pick any good or bad example of something and strap it to your argument, but it doesn't make it convincing. > And your "final word on the subject" is apparently "meat tastes good and people like it." Forgive me if I'm not pursuaded by your "logic". Yep, that's why people will continue to eat meat; it tastes g…
Please stop. We don't need another generic flamewar about this.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it is problematic that land owners are actually rewarded for their wealth. But at least it's difficult to create new would-be farmland. However if the would-be fisherman owns a fishing boat that could be used but isn't, then perhaps a lot of would-be fishing boats would suddenly be constructed so would-be fishers would be paid for their would-be fish catching.
> Of course it is problematic that land owners are actually rewarded for their wealth No, they are rewarded for playing along with whatever scheme's currently running. Stop trying to demonize them.
In UK at least, land ownership is very concentrated, so these "farming subsidies" are not usually going to the people you'd expect:
> When our government says "we must help the farmers", it means "we must help the 0.1%". Most of the land here is owned by exceedingly wealthy people. Some of them are millionaires from elsewhere: sheikhs, oligarchs and mining magnates who own vast estates in this country. Although they might pay no taxes in the UK, they receive millions in farm subsidies.[0]
> Farm subsidies, which remain limitless as a result of the Westminster government’s lobbying, ensure that every household in Britain hands £245 a year to the richest people in the land.[1]
[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-s...
[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/03/landow...
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think this is a fair comparison because we breed these animals for farming, so technically we could breed as many as we need to sustain our habits. On the other hand there is no way to breed whales. There is some finite number of them in the wild and we cannot actively endeavor to create more. Commercial farming of farm animals will not cause the extinction of farm animals; commercial farming of whales will c…
So it’s only immoral if the number of the animals is really low? Seems like an arbitrary trait to determine whether animals deserve to live or not
All other things being equal, killing an animal that is in danger of extinction is worse than killing one which is plentiful.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well , by that logic any and all meat has to be banned. That is unachievable at the moment. It's saddening, that people willingly participate in extinction of a species however... that is what whaling has become after all.
Extinction is a bit too strong of a word here - the combined minke whale population (AFAIK, minkes in the northern and southern hemisphere are considered separate species) is numbered in the hundreds of thousands; Japan kills a few hundred a year, last year Norway caught 342. Full disclosure - Norwegian, living in an area where whaling has been performed for hundreds of years, currently have about 12-15 pounds of wha…
What is the texture and taste like (since whales are mammals) ?
Does it have fat marbling like beef/pork ?
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have been thinking about the issue of "saving the planet", which is similar to "saving the endangered spices from extinctions". Ultimately I think humans are just selfish by nature and they only do things to ensure the continuation of humans as a spices. Everything else is sugar-coating it. So really, there is no morality to be discussed, it is just natural instinct. My unpopular thoughts on global warming: https:/…
Humans are much more selfish than that. Almost nobody cares about the species. They care about themselves, their family, maybe their neighborhood, and if you’re really lucky they might care about their country.
> They care about themselves, their family, maybe their neighborhood, and if you’re really lucky they might care about their country.
Most of that is social construct.
Our biological imperative is too simple for most people to fathom-- if you concern yourself only with the welfare of yourself and your family, you're doing your part for the species by expanding it with viable offspring.
If ensuring the survival of you and yours means paying tribute to the local warlord or toeing a party line, then concern for the neighborhood or country will follow.
But make no mistake, it's not in your interests for the species to thrive. It's in your interests for your own offspring to thrive. Nature can't maintain its balance if the sick and infertile reproduce and the boundless demand for limited resources result in us driving everything else to extinction until we all run around sticking punji knives in each others' guts for lack of food anyway.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#218deleted
Please don't advocate violence here.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reminds me a little of the outrage in CA about horse meat. There are plenty of people who think eating horse meat is morally wrong while at the same time they eat some salad with bacon on top There was of course an extensive horse meat scandal in the UK as well, but I didn’t encounter anybody at that time describing the consumption of horse meat as “morally wrong”. Mislabelling of products, fraud, and food safety - t…
The U.K. is next door to France where eating horse is common. Many if not most British kids will have at least tried horse on a school trip to France. The French also eat frogs and snails.
1/3 of British kids will have eaten horse meat if they ate meat at all in 2013.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, just not real or tasty ones.
I'm cooking and eating burgers often, and they smell and taste quite real (as opposed to imaginary burgers made out of air). Have you yourself tried a non-flesh burger, and did you genuinely find it bad? Was it from a shop or a cafe or was it homemade? Or do you have a dogmatic belief that there has to be real suffering and murder for a burger to be real ?
It appears to be an issue with expectations for some people (including me). "Burger" is associated with a certain flavor, texture and appearance, so when I eat a veggie burger my subconsciousness is disappointed because it's too different. The veggie burger becomes a worse version of a regular burger rather than an independent dish. This is the main reason why I dislike so many "vegetarian alternative" dishes on our kitchen's menu like chili sin carne, while some "standalone" vegetarian dishes are among my favorites like pasta with spinach, tomato and feta in cream sauce.
I hope artificial meat will be introduced as a 'luxury' product and replace mass-produced fast food ground beef after it is well established as a genuine alternative and not some inferior knock-off like artificial cheese.