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Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#61

Post by merb »

maxxxxx wrote: post #40
malvosenior wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to change our attitudes on this issue. How would future societies propose we feed ourselves if we don't eat meat?

You can eat plants perfectly fine which in addition is much easier on the environment. At a minimum meat consumption could be reduced a lot.

some plants would kill the planet as well. let's take almonds for example, they need a huge amount of water. and still more and more products will include them.

if everybody eats plants we would also need a huge amount of water/field sizes to feed everybody. guess the best thing is a healthy mix of everything.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#62

Post by matthewmacleod »

maxxxxx wrote: post #38

I don't even eat meat but I find it difficult to be angry about this when at the same time at home we have millions (billions?) of farm animals live in absolutely terrible conditions. Reminds me a little of the outrage in CA about horse meat. There are plenty of people who think eating horse meat is morally wrong while at the same time they eat some salad with bacon on top. Why is a horse better than a pig? Certainly…

Reminds me a little of the outrage in CA about horse meat. There are plenty of people who think eating horse meat is morally wrong while at the same time they eat some salad with bacon on top

There was of course an extensive horse meat scandal in the UK as well, but I didn’t encounter anybody at that time describing the consumption of horse meat as “morally wrong”. Mislabelling of products, fraud, and food safety - those were the problems.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#64

Post by coldtea »

temeritatis wrote: post #6

People often defend these kind of acts with the rationale that it is a culture heritage. If so, shouldn't they be sailing the ocean with traditional wooden sailboats and relying only on wind and currents to take them where they should go?

No, because they are free to mix and match from their cultural heritage, and keep some parts while developing others (and adding new stuff to it).

When we're talking about "cultural heritage", we mean respecting their choices regarding their cultural heritage (including abandoning parts of it). Not that they should absolutely stick to older practices on every aspect of life.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#65

Post by rblion »

temeritatis wrote: post #6

People often defend these kind of acts with the rationale that it is a culture heritage. If so, shouldn't they be sailing the ocean with traditional wooden sailboats and relying only on wind and currents to take them where they should go?

This would make too much sense

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#67

Post by hjek »

ahje wrote: post #37
janimo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to? Aren't pigs or cattle sentient?

The most intelligent Cetaceans are Orcas and Bottle-nosed Dolphins. Both pass the mirror test* while other whales have failed. The same applies for pigs and most other mammals. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Are you suggesting that pigs or cows can't feel anything (pain or pleasure) because they don't understand how a mirror works?

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#68

Post by coldtea »

hjek wrote: post #54
siffland wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

will probably get down voted for this but cannibalism was part of some cultures.....just saying, things change.

The "tradition" argument is interesting: We'll keep on doing this, because we've been doing it for a while, so let's not consider whether it's appropriate. That cliché argument is used not only by the Japanese to defend whale hunting but to any kind of violence towards all non-human animals. Things change. Things need to change.

>The "tradition" argument is interesting: We'll keep on doing this, because we've been doing it for a while, so let's not consider whether it's appropriate.

No, it's more like:

"We do this for a long time, and we consider this part of who we are, and we like it, and want to keep doing it. We're not idiots to just do it because we did it in the past, and in fact, we have opted to drop tons of things that we did in the past that we don't like anymore, we're not stuck like that".

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#69

Post by paraditedc »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #57
paraditedc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been thinking about the issue of "saving the planet", which is similar to "saving the endangered spices from extinctions". Ultimately I think humans are just selfish by nature and they only do things to ensure the continuation of humans as a spices. Everything else is sugar-coating it. So really, there is no morality to be discussed, it is just natural instinct. My unpopular thoughts on global warming: https:/…

I read your link, and my biggest disagreement with it is that it (a) basically uses a very flimsy strawman argument that mischaracterizes the other side and (b) its conclusion is baffling and illogical. Of course the reason we should fight global warming is that it will have huge deleterious effects on humans that are avoidable. Yes, I agree, "the planet" will continue with or without us, but most people would prefer…

> Finally, you end with "All we are doing is making the earth more suitable for humans to live, that’s it." What?? Tell that to the billions of people that live along the coast, or say anyone that lives in Bangladesh.

I think you misunderstood the meaning of that sentence. I mean "the effort to counter global warming" is to make the earth more suitable for humans to live, not the lack of effort.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#70

Post by thomasahle »

lm2s wrote: post #66

Just recently I learned that Japan is not the only country that hunts whales. It seems Norway also does it and to a larger scale. This isn't an excuse for Japan, just sharing this info for others that might unaware that Japan isn't alone in this.

Yes, there's a plot at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Greenland comparing Japan to Scandinavia.

Japan used to whale way more than any other country though (pre 80's), so hopefully this move doesn't signal returning to those levels.

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