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Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#31

Post by siffland »

javagram wrote: post #8

According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?

If you are comparing pigs and cows to whaling you are comparing apples and oranges. Pigs and cows and such are farm raised animals for the purpose of slaughter.

If you compared it to hunting deer and moose and elephants and lions and whatnot that would be more of a comparison. Still the difference there is individuals are getting hunting licenses as opposed to an entire country.

You can compare tuna fishing and crabbing and that would probably be the best comparison, and depending on what you read even those have sustainability issues.

I think it is quite silly to hunt some species almost to extinction and ban it for awhile just to repeat the events of the past (lather, rinse, repeat i guess). But i am not Japanese and would not enjoy eating whale meat.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#32

Post by v_lisivka »

Santosh83 wrote: post #3

Disappointing. We share one planet. Nations need to be held accountable by each other for the amount of resources they consume and how they do so. And in this case whales are not even within Japanese territory...

We need to international agreement to stop hunting wild animal outside of the country territory. However, if even one nation will disobey it, it will not work. To make it work, we need to _force_ all nations to obey common law, i.e. we need central government with forces. It doesn't look doable without one or two world wide wars. And the global exchaution of resources is the fastest way to perform these wars.

So, to win, we need to create mess first, then clean up.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#33

Post by siffland »

temeritatis wrote: post #6

People often defend these kind of acts with the rationale that it is a culture heritage. If so, shouldn't they be sailing the ocean with traditional wooden sailboats and relying only on wind and currents to take them where they should go?

will probably get down voted for this but cannibalism was part of some cultures.....just saying, things change.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#35

Post by ajmurmann »

wolco wrote: post #18
ajmurmann wrote: post #13

Can we please have a global moratorium on all fishing for a few years? We are fishing the seas empty. I'm more than happy to pay for my share of the unsold/uncaught fish. This is such a disheartening example of the tragedy of the commons.

No, that would be an over reaction that will harm more than it helps. Controls are important but stop all legal fishing is not the answer.

For years I tried to only buy "sustainable" fish. It's almost impossible. Different lists give you different criteria. So much fish is endangered. So much fishing happens in ways that fish that's not even desired gets caught and thrown back in dead. Worth, some fishing techniques even damage the sea bed itself. On top of that most fish in stores is mislabeled making it downright impossible to enjoy fish without ruining the planet.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#36

Post by bravefoot »

As one commentator, Michael Cucek, pointed out (0), this could result in less whales being killed. There isn't that much of a market for whale in Japan and whaling operations have mostly been subsidised for "research" purposes. (0)https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelTCucek/status/107560724374...

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#37

Post by ahje »

janimo wrote: post #17
ant6n wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) its not actually sustainable 2) whales are sentient, or pretty close to it

As opposed to? Aren't pigs or cattle sentient?

The most intelligent Cetaceans are Orcas and Bottle-nosed Dolphins. Both pass the mirror test* while other whales have failed. The same applies for pigs and most other mammals.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#38

Post by maxxxxx »

I don't even eat meat but I find it difficult to be angry about this when at the same time at home we have millions (billions?) of farm animals live in absolutely terrible conditions. Reminds me a little of the outrage in CA about horse meat. There are plenty of people who think eating horse meat is morally wrong while at the same time they eat some salad with bacon on top. Why is a horse better than a pig? Certainly not because they are smarter.

The only difference I see is that whales are more in the open while the suffering of farm animals is neatly hidden away from most of us.

We should strive to treat animals much, much better but that should apply to all and not just to a few favored ones like whales while forgetting others.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#39

Post by sildur »

nnutter wrote: post #10
javagram wrote: post #8

According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?

If you didn’t make them you don’t get to eat them?

You should not eat fish from the sea, then.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#40

Post by maxxxxx »

malvosenior wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible. One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or p…

> I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to change our attitudes on this issue. How would future societies propose we feed ourselves if we don't eat meat?

You can eat plants perfectly fine which in addition is much easier on the environment. At a minimum meat consumption could be reduced a lot.
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