Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) its not actually sustainable 2) whales are sentient, or pretty close to it
As opposed to? Aren't pigs or cattle sentient?
Yes. The way we treat them is wrong, too.
Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
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Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#22According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?
Ignoring the whataboutism going on here, there are a lot of other glaring issues with this comparison. Whales are not farmed. Their populations have been in decline since the dawn of sailing. Some organizations consider the targeted whale species (Minke?) to be endangered.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#23According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?
While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible.
One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or playing a game, or enjoying a pet by a human. And folks could coo over these adorable pictures while eating bacon or a burger.
And similarly people have no problem eating pork or beef, but express sheer disgust at the thought of eating horse or dog meat. At some point you realize that these distinctions are arbitrary.
This is certainly a very unpopular opinion in the population at large, but I've always been interested in how cultures can look back at earlier versions of themselves and be amazed at how wrong humans previously were, e.g. with slavery, treatment of women, colonialism, attitudes toward homosexuality, etc. I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to change our attitudes on this issue.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) its not actually sustainable 2) whales are sentient, or pretty close to it
As opposed to? Aren't pigs or cattle sentient?
No, pigs and cattle are not sentient.
Sentience is a complex question, but it mostly revolves around language and symbol-making/recognition. There's substantial evidence that whales actually have language. Pigs and cattle do not.
(edit: I'm misusing the word "sentience" here. The problem is that it's not the right distinction. Cows/pigs are sentient, in that they can feel emotions. But they cannot reason. So it's not just that whales are sentient, but also that whales can reason. At any rate, whales are considered by most experts to be able to think similarly to the way humans think - language, symbolism.)
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#25Disappointing. We share one planet. Nations need to be held accountable by each other for the amount of resources they consume and how they do so. And in this case whales are not even within Japanese territory...
Well, according to the article:
> Government spokesman Yoshihide Suga said commercial whaling would be restricted to Japanese territorial waters and economic zones.
> As a result, Japan will stop hunting in Antarctic waters and the southern hemisphere, a prospect conservation groups had welcomed before it was formally confirmed.
And:
> Japan offered a package of measures, including setting up a Sustainable Whaling Committee and sustainable catch limits "for abundant whale stocks/species".
> The proposal was voted down.
In other words: Japan will keep the whaling within their own territorial water, and has indeed tried getting a consensus regarding quotas for sustainable whaling. Others refused to come to terms, so Japan has decided to do their own thing.
I realise it's an unpopular opinion to have, but wouldn't regulated and sustainable whaling be better than various rogue states? It's not this is going to result in anything but criticism from other countries anyway, so blocking a desiscion on sustainable whaling will only result in others doing what Japan does.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#26People often defend these kind of acts with the rationale that it is a culture heritage. If so, shouldn't they be sailing the ocean with traditional wooden sailboats and relying only on wind and currents to take them where they should go?
I generally see that rational applied to whaling only when discussing indigenous populations such as the Inuit in Alaska. They are whaling in small boats and canoes using traditional techniques. Japan’s excuse for whaling is “scientific study.” I don’t think they are claiming to whale for cultural reasons, nor are they whaling for subsistence, which is allowed under international law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
No, they're explicitly dropping the scientific study excuse, and using culture now. They're also only going to be whaling in their economic exclusion zone now, rather than going potentially thousands of miles.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#27According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?
Cows and pigs are farm-raised, not wild. There are plenty of restrictions around hunting any wild animals in most nations, related to sustainability. The question is, do we totally ban whaling in light of their endangered status, or do we allow limited whaling as long as it's sustainable? Another moral question is in play, though. Whales are widely believed to be sentient, as intelligent as human beings. If that is t…
> Whales are widely believed to be sentient, as intelligent as human beings.
This is not true. They are considered smart animals but not as smart as humans (obviously). I think a pig is supposed to have similar levels of intelligence.
For the record I oppose whaling, but I don't think making hyperbolic statements is going to help anything.
EDIT: If anyone would like to post some information showing that whales are as smart as humans I'd love to see it.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#28Waiting for the first person to mention Southpark.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#29People often defend these kind of acts with the rationale that it is a culture heritage. If so, shouldn't they be sailing the ocean with traditional wooden sailboats and relying only on wind and currents to take them where they should go?
I generally see that rational applied to whaling only when discussing indigenous populations such as the Inuit in Alaska. They are whaling in small boats and canoes using traditional techniques. Japan’s excuse for whaling is “scientific study.” I don’t think they are claiming to whale for cultural reasons, nor are they whaling for subsistence, which is allowed under international law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
No,they used to claim science, but the revent announcement is explicitly about it not being for research any more, and the ban on selling whale meat is also lifted.
Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission
#30According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?
While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible. One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or p…
> I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to change our attitudes on this issue.
How would future societies propose we feed ourselves if we don't eat meat?