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Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

technologyreview.com

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Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#51

Post by andai »

dahdum wrote: post #31
khazhoux wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this an uncrossable line, though? Clearly this research is meant to be a first/early step towards preserving brains in the event of traumatic bodily injury. Is that not a worthwhile goal? Is it outweighed by some possible nefarious abuse of this technique? There are obviously major issues to work out still, but I don't see how else this research can advance but with animal experiments.

I don’t see major issues either. If they can make this work it reasons maintaining the eyes may be possible, and perhaps some auditory nerve capability too. I’d probably take the chance if faced with early death otherwise.

When your body is done for, but you've gotten really attached to your head.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#53

Post by kortilla »

redisman wrote: post #43
Dylan16807 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it happens as a side-effect of cost-cutting, but it's not desired. The goal is to have animals wander around a barn/field for months to years and then get instantly killed before being cut up.

Is that the goal? Of the ad departments of meat companies maybe lol

Of everyone in the meat company all of the way to the consumer. Nobody wants the animals to suffer (outside the portion of psychopaths present in all industries).

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#54

Post by MFrGfBmq »

trevyn wrote: post #39
decapitator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, can I keep your mind alive and disconnect it from your body, and just, you know, try stuff out, while you endure some kind of surreal waking nightmare, forever looking out from a terrarium with lidless eyes?

Maybe, tell me more. I’m running out of interesting experiences.

If you happened to be a death row inmate in China, you might had better chances running into such experiences. Your remaining organs, while your brain was in a jar, would be donated to a rich cause.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#55

Post by TeMPOraL »

badminton1 wrote: post #49
torgian wrote: post #33

Spoiler warning: I didn’t read the article (can’t access now due to vpn not working) So from reading others comments and such: yeah, I understand the idea that the pigs could be comatose and not experiencing anything. From the science behind brains as we know it, that seems to be the case. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with this because, in the end, it will benefit humans. And we are more important than pigs…

[flagged]

This argument is valid forwards, but not universally backwards. Otherwise you could repeat it with pigs and ants, and then with ants and bacteria.

There is a spectrum of life, on one end you have self-propagating chemical reactions, on the other you have beings with moral significance. Whether or not experiments on animals are morally justified depend on where those animals lie on this spectrum, and the form and goal of the experiment.

I'm not trying to say here where pigs lie on the spectrum, just that this discussion needs to happen on a much deeper level of details than "humans are more important than pigs" vs. "but aliens could say the same thing about us" for it to be useful.

(Personally, as long as the brains remain comatose all the way through, I don't feel there's a problem here. If they were active... that would be animal cruelty to me. But that's just my individual moral intuition.)

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#56

Post by perfmode »

torgian wrote: post #33

Spoiler warning: I didn’t read the article (can’t access now due to vpn not working) So from reading others comments and such: yeah, I understand the idea that the pigs could be comatose and not experiencing anything. From the science behind brains as we know it, that seems to be the case. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with this because, in the end, it will benefit humans. And we are more important than pigs…

I’m curious. What is your basis for determining that it is okay to do this to pigs?

Could we also do this to dogs?

Dolphins? Elephants? Monkeys?

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#57

Post by TeMPOraL »

kortilla wrote: post #53
redisman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the goal? Of the ad departments of meat companies maybe lol

Of everyone in the meat company all of the way to the consumer. Nobody wants the animals to suffer (outside the portion of psychopaths present in all industries).

How so? If that were true, we'd see factory farms lobbying for stronger laws against animal cruelty, to prevent competitors that do not care about animals from forcing everyone into the current state of things.

Truth is, a lot of people - inside and outside - just don't care. Ceteris paribus, they'd prefer animals to have happy lives, but that preference is outweighed by needs of convenience, profit, human healthcare, and food security.

Psychopaths are rare. But, with apologies to Burke/Mill[0], the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is to separate good men from it by enough layers of abstraction.

--

[0] - Apparently [1], the Burke never said that, and the original sounds closer to "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing", which is incidentally even closer to my paraphrase.

[1] - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-top-10-misattribute...

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#58

Post by TeMPOraL »

perfmode wrote: post #56
torgian wrote: post #33

Spoiler warning: I didn’t read the article (can’t access now due to vpn not working) So from reading others comments and such: yeah, I understand the idea that the pigs could be comatose and not experiencing anything. From the science behind brains as we know it, that seems to be the case. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with this because, in the end, it will benefit humans. And we are more important than pigs…

I’m curious. What is your basis for determining that it is okay to do this to pigs? Could we also do this to dogs? Dolphins? Elephants? Monkeys?

Cats? Mice? Ants? Paramecium caudatum? Bacteria?

We need a better framework for this issue than "where do you draw the line" Vegan Billboard[0].

--

[0] - https://imgur.com/gallery/h9tbwcH

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#59

Post by alan_wade »

aerique wrote: post #34
khazhoux wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this an uncrossable line, though? Clearly this research is meant to be a first/early step towards preserving brains in the event of traumatic bodily injury. Is that not a worthwhile goal? Is it outweighed by some possible nefarious abuse of this technique? There are obviously major issues to work out still, but I don't see how else this research can advance but with animal experiments.

This is all fun and games until Peter Thiel needs a new host for his brain. disclaimer: I am not Peter Thiel

Maybe it's a new body for Peter Thiel made out of some poor person.

Maybe it's immortality for all of us, ability for a dying person to hop into a young, healthy, good looking clone body.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#60

Post by thefounder »

perfmode wrote: post #56
torgian wrote: post #33

Spoiler warning: I didn’t read the article (can’t access now due to vpn not working) So from reading others comments and such: yeah, I understand the idea that the pigs could be comatose and not experiencing anything. From the science behind brains as we know it, that seems to be the case. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with this because, in the end, it will benefit humans. And we are more important than pigs…

I’m curious. What is your basis for determining that it is okay to do this to pigs? Could we also do this to dogs? Dolphins? Elephants? Monkeys?

Well, we eat the pigs so doing some science experiments on them should be acceptable considering we have so many food alternatives and still eat pigs. I believe people who eat dogs don't see an issue with dog experiments.
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