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Here is another article as well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nation.co.ke/news/Chinese-m...
Since that article seems both more informative and more neutral (for example, it says "China may" while the other article says "China to"), we switched to it from https://www.africanstand.com/news/africa/east-africa/china-t... . Also, this one is still up and that one isn't. Thanks!
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Everyone looking for justifications for anti-Chinese sentiment these days
That's my impression as well. After visiting China and reading a lot about their society I have to say, I wish our governments cared even 50% about their citizens' security as China does. And don't even start me on infrastructure and digitalisation.
Could the USA or an european nation offer to pay the loan in exchange for taking over the port? Itd be cool to swoop in on this deal.
so china taking over the port is bad but it's OK if USA does it because they will make it a freedom port?
It would be good if you could stop posting unsubstantive comments in general too.
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Are you seriously claiming that the French (and/or EU) somehow orchestrated the Libyan civil war? Offtopic: You joined yesterday and have gained 160+ points already with only 7 comments. That is very impressive!
Of course they didn't orchestrate it, but without Sarkozy's calls for an air intervention,which America and Britain then went along with, the war likely would have fizzled or resolved in a way in which there wouldn't be a massive power vacuum. Along with Iraq it stands as one of this century's greatest follies as it resulted in Libya having very factionalized governance, and furthermore then led towards arms being sp…
But Boko Haram started its big rise already ca.1-2 years before the protests in Libya even begun, therefore the Libya situation did not directly create the rise of Boko Haram.
Also, it is not clear if things would have fizzled out without an intervention. The Syria war happened in parallel, and whoever was left to rule Libya (in whole or in parts) would have had to face the Battar Brigade, and then eventually the ISIL in Libya. Given that those actors obviously received clandestine backing (money, equipment, training) from "somewhere", thus greatly increasing their strength against any more organic movement(s), and given highly possible political reluctance to arm/support the opposite side, it is conceivable that the entire Libya could have eventually become an ISIL stronghold.
The whole Arab Spring was strategically bad news for the EU, including France. They had nothing to gain from orchestrating such a thing. But without any intervention (read: attempts to control) the Libya situation could have turned into something much worse, given that the likes of AQIM existed already in the neighbourhood before the Libya protests started, and this can explain the eagerness to try to clean up the mess as quickly as possible.
West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…
Everyone looking for justifications for anti-Chinese sentiment these days
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It's based on talking to people and watching them change their opinion though time. It may be completely off due to sampling bias, but I don't think there is any source out there with better confidence, as I have never seen anybody doing a serious poll of the subject. EDIT: Well, in reply to your edit, how did you search for that research? All I can see is trash news about some huge investment coming from China to Br…
I did this search at Startpage.com: brazil attitudes toward china poll
At least for me, it doesn't show any poll about opinion on Chinese investment. Those are different things.
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Nobody's arguing colonial history doesn't have a huge number of mistakes. But now, at this moment, policy going forward -- if not supporting democracy, democratically elected leaders, and the regular, peaceful transition of power, then what? It's easy to cast stones, but useless without a better, prescriptive alternative. Non-intervention on the world's part is why Gaddafi (42 years), Biya (43), Obiang (39), dos Sant…
I would love a wonderful world in which France generally supported democratic leaders and encouraged democratization. Such a world would likely prove the death knell of Francafrique. But it is a complete falsehood that France has that vision, it still supports scores of tyrants in the region, and has looked past the way quite a number of times in the last three years alone. You seem to think this is still “colonial h…
That said, in comparison to post-WWII refuse-to-decolonize France? Objectively, modern France is far more ethical.
In regards to speed, as a political science professor once quiped to me, 'Countries don't change. The people with one set of ideas just get old and die.'
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Are you seriously claiming that the French (and/or EU) somehow orchestrated the Libyan civil war? Offtopic: You joined yesterday and have gained 160+ points already with only 7 comments. That is very impressive!
As someone who doesn't consider themself to be a bot - if that is your inference - I upvoted because i found the post particularly well-written and informative from someone 'on the ground' so to speak. - ed (also somewhat contrary to my preferred Euro-friendly narrative)
I just thought, like I wrote, that the mass of karma per time unit was (for lack of a better word, in all friendliness) impressive.
The posts are certainly informative. However, some details are not factual. To claim that the "provocations of the French" somehow made the migrant influx to Europe happen is wrong, the influx was due to the Libyan civil war collapsing the Gaddafi regime. The French did not start the Libyan protests and neither the civil war. Of course, one could argue that the French and NATO method of weakening Gaddafi's troops did not play out so well in the end, since it did not succeed in creating a stable new government, but this was mainly due to the effects of the Syrian war spilling out to Libya.
Also, claiming that the rise of Boko Haram was due to the Libyan civil war (and by some, perhaps imagined extensions, the French "provocations") is wrong, Boko Haram were already on the rise before the protests in Libya even started.
As for the Chinese building infrastructure left and right: the roads and rails can transport people or resources. I think it is mainly to do the latter towards harbors and mainland China, but supports the former as well. Is it good for the African nations? Certainly, more infrastructure that works will be a boost to the economies of the continent. However, to be a realist: building roads, rails, harbors, airports and such is not done as a gesture of goodwill or some kind of a gift or a form of help. Thinking so is very naïve. There is always some catch, with everything. Some catches are win-win, some are not. Time will tell what this will be.
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> The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA [...] Claiming these former colonies are "free" is perhaps a deep misunderstanding of what "free" means. Consider: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-it...
Pretty much every point in this article is demonstrably false and unsourced, it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) but please don't trust anything written in this blog.
Claiming something is demonstrably false, then saying 30 minutes is too much time to spend demonstrating alleged falsehoods, in a debate on a forum where you've already been engaged in other responses to the same debate over time...
I shared the article in good faith, as part of the debate. Am I then to assume the article (as well as others that suggest similar points[0]) is false simply because you've said so?
"It could be claimed that the countries that operate with these currencies might freely leave the arrangement at any time. In truth, dozens of African leaders, from Silvanus Olympio in Togo to Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, have tried in recent decades to replace these tools of monetary and financial control with a new common African currency. Almost all of them - with the possible exception of Malian President Modibo Keïta (1915-77) - have been killed or overthrown the very moment in which their attempts were close to succeeding." [1]
[0] http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2017/07/12/the-cfa-franc-...
[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/torpedoing-africa-...
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Something tells me this commenter is affiliated with the Chinese government.
This breaks the site guidelines badly, and we ban accounts that do that. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
I intended to add a word of caution to the original comment, while completely acknowledging that I may be totally wrong. New account, redirection of the topic while not addressing the specific points of criticism, in conflict with other investigative journalist reports. Here's why I put on a tin foil hat: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1...
FWIW, I'm appreciative of quite a number of 'bold' policies of the Chinese government dared to experiment with and implement. It's just that undisclosed affiliations bother me.