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Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

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Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#81

Post by beagle3 »

lostlogin wrote: post #58
trevyn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could also be due to people in the US simply seeking more care than in other countries.

What’s the logic in that? If the cost is socialised surely you’d expect more people to seek care than if they were paying?

What’s the logic in that?

Am I going to get a quad bypass just because it is cheaper?

People seek care because they need it. The kind of care that people use more because it is cheaper/available is maintenance care (which reduces overall costs because things are often treated before they become critical).

The first time I heard “I am feeling sick / cut my hand / need stitches but I cannot afford to go to the doctor” was in the US, and it left me dumbfounded - I have lived in a few places, and that’s a US only thing.

Also, I could understand some of George Carlin’s jokes (e.g. “dirty doctor” one) until I had lived in the US.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#82

Post by spullara »

sitkack wrote: post #53
telotortium wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the actual household income in various countries, as opposed to the GDP, which doesn't always track household income as well for many OECD countries, it turns out that the US has pretty much the healthcare consumption expected for its average household income: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2018/11/19/why-everything... . Based on this analysis, I think the primary issue with US healthcare is the fa…

Please stop using average. Median is a much better measure.

Average can be the median or the mean. Usually the government reports median when they say average.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#83

Post by homero »

throwaway12iii wrote: post #60
tehlike wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most doctors in the US actually do not know about the prices of treatments as it changes based on insurance administrator/insurer, and then what the patient pays also have huge variability based on insurance administrator/insurer.

Most doctors in the US actually do know how pricing works.

They know how it works but not the exact price of an aspirin. They can't exactly tell you to go to the pharmacy out of your hospital bed to get a $2 bottle vs a $50 pill from them.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#84

Post by Johnny555 »

throwaway12iii wrote: post #60
tehlike wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most doctors in the US actually do not know about the prices of treatments as it changes based on insurance administrator/insurer, and then what the patient pays also have huge variability based on insurance administrator/insurer.

Most doctors in the US actually do know how pricing works.

They know in generalities how it works, but I doubt that most doctors in a hospital setting can tell you how much a particular procedure will cost you.

Even my dentist in a private practice often doesn't know "Well, we'll bill this to the insurance company, but they might not cover it all so we'll have to bill you"

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#85

Post by trevyn »

beagle3 wrote: post #81
lostlogin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the logic in that? If the cost is socialised surely you’d expect more people to seek care than if they were paying?

What’s the logic in that? Am I going to get a quad bypass just because it is cheaper? People seek care because they need it. The kind of care that people use more because it is cheaper/available is maintenance care (which reduces overall costs because things are often treated before they become critical). The first time I heard “I am feeling sick / cut my hand / need stitches but I cannot afford to go to the doctor”…

“I have cancer and I went to the doctor and they gave me painkillers” is a non-US/EU thing.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#86

Post by mirimir »

throwaway12iii wrote: post #60
tehlike wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most doctors in the US actually do not know about the prices of treatments as it changes based on insurance administrator/insurer, and then what the patient pays also have huge variability based on insurance administrator/insurer.

Most doctors in the US actually do know how pricing works.

That's not what parent said. Sure, they arguably "know how pricing works". Their staff (or at least, their data systems) know about each patient's insurance. And hopefully, what physician services it covers. But I doubt that physicians themselves know that stuff. It's not what they focus on.

In my experience, staff generally know how to code referrals for lab work and specialists so patients' insurance will cover it. But sometimes they screw up. So for example, I've been prescribed a testosterone supplement. But insurance won't cover testing for blood testosterone, level unless they use the right diagnostic code. Also for prostate-specific antigen checking. They have to code "enlarged prostate" in order to have it covered. There's another code for routine testing, but it isn't enough.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#87

Post by intralizee »

trevyn wrote: post #48
intralizee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree from personal experience. Location of where you are in the US matters. I'm in Montreal right now and the mental healthcare here is superior than what I experienced in the US in Michigan (majority of my life). I would even go as far to write the mental healthcare in USA, which I received ruined my life. If only I had the pleasure of what is available in Canada for my whole life.

The further toward the poles you go, the more mental healthcare is needed, so it makes sense they would have the experience and infrastructure! (Completely serious.)

This isn't necessarily the case with my situation. There was only one hospital for where I lived in Marquette, Michigan. My mental healthcare was pertaining to gender dysphoria and not depression which I think you're associating with longer winters. Anyway place I grew up was filled with religious nuts to make things short. They forcibly prescribed me with antipsychotics while ignoring my right & modern medical approach of gender dysphoria. Montreal is a large city compared to that place and is progressive like California. So basically where you're located when it comes to social structure is huge.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#88

Post by taneq »

refurb wrote: post #67
taneq wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the point of view of people from other countries: Yes. Your pricing is fucked up.

That sounds like an awesome idea if you completely ignore all the important things about healthcare differences across countries. In fact, it sounds like a great way to make things worse!

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0011_health-outcomes

https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-wor...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o...

Um.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#89

Post by easytiger »

telotortium wrote: post #45
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

If you look at the actual household income in various countries, as opposed to the GDP, which doesn't always track household income as well for many OECD countries, it turns out that the US has pretty much the healthcare consumption expected for its average household income: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2018/11/19/why-everything... . Based on this analysis, I think the primary issue with US healthcare is the fa…

> On the other hand, even countries that have tried to control their healthcare costs have generally failed to make much impact.

Because healthcare is an ever expanding, ever innovating industry with infinite scope. For countries with universal healthcare this is painfully obvious. What once was a service in the 1950s to perform what now would be considered very rudimentary procedures and proscribe > In all OECD countries, unfortunately, healthcare spending doesn't seem to be especially correlated with increased lifespace.

Diseases of plenty now represent greater harm in most of the developed world than do ailments of scarcity.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#90

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

trevyn wrote: post #48
intralizee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree from personal experience. Location of where you are in the US matters. I'm in Montreal right now and the mental healthcare here is superior than what I experienced in the US in Michigan (majority of my life). I would even go as far to write the mental healthcare in USA, which I received ruined my life. If only I had the pleasure of what is available in Canada for my whole life.

The further toward the poles you go, the more mental healthcare is needed, so it makes sense they would have the experience and infrastructure! (Completely serious.)

I think I might have heard this at some point in the past.

Anyway, I found a reference to support your claim:

Also consistent with the conclusions of Torrey1 and Saha et al,2 our analyses shown in table 3 found a strong tendency for prevalence to increase with latitude.[1]

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2669590/

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