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Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

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Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#71

Post by feanaro »

huac wrote: post #63
refurb wrote: post #9

My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t. One interesting idea (not well thought out at all) would say that all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. Medicare pays $20,000 for stent placement? Great! You can charge whatever you want up to $30,000. A lot of effort goes into setting Medicare rates (and they are based on self reported costs across the co…

> all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. This is actually close to what happens with private insurers- they negotiate with a hospital to pay n-times what Medicare pays for some set of treatments. So why does Medicare pay the least? Because they have the most patients covered of any insurance network in the US. That's a hell of a bargaining factor. More patients = cheaper prices. The logical conclusion i…

That still doesn't explain how prices of medical services in many other countries turn out several order of magnitudes smaller than commonly encountered prices in the US.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#72

Post by peteretep »

refurb wrote: post #9

My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t. One interesting idea (not well thought out at all) would say that all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. Medicare pays $20,000 for stent placement? Great! You can charge whatever you want up to $30,000. A lot of effort goes into setting Medicare rates (and they are based on self reported costs across the co…

> My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t.

There will be a heavy pushback from industry about how that’s socialism, delivered via Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#73

Post by peteretep »

feanaro wrote: post #71
huac wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. This is actually close to what happens with private insurers- they negotiate with a hospital to pay n-times what Medicare pays for some set of treatments. So why does Medicare pay the least? Because they have the most patients covered of any insurance network in the US. That's a hell of a bargaining factor. More patients = cheaper prices. The logical conclusion i…

That still doesn't explain how prices of medical services in many other countries turn out several order of magnitudes smaller than commonly encountered prices in the US.

Are the prices that Medicare pay orders of magnitude different? ISTR that Medicare and the VA both pay about $10k per patient per year, which I think is comparable with the NHS. No sources as this is half-remembered.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#74

Post by StreamBright »

torgian wrote: post #34
AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those nice ideas that has some pretty serious hidden costs. You’d struggle to compare healthcare in the US to other countries, because the quality of healthcare available (talking about availability, not accessibility) in the US is generally superior to other countries. So you could end up simply eroding the quality of care in the US. Another thing people tend not to talk about when discussing healthca…

I disagree about quality/availability. In Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, Thailand; I’ve had amazing health care for the fraction of the price. Shit, a full cancer check only cost me 90 dollars in Japan. Getting my eyes fully checked for retinal tears cost me nothing due to national insurance in China. In some cases, maybe the US has better care. But the cost of that is just way too damn high. Yes, medical research in…

The US health care is optimised for the the p99, top 1% of the population who can afford anything. The other countries you mentioned optimise for the p50, the average person.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#75

Post by feanaro »

trevyn wrote: post #47
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

This could also be due to people in the US simply seeking more care than in other countries.

FWIW, this isn't what I observe.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#76

Post by mtgx »

huac wrote: post #63
refurb wrote: post #9

My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t. One interesting idea (not well thought out at all) would say that all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. Medicare pays $20,000 for stent placement? Great! You can charge whatever you want up to $30,000. A lot of effort goes into setting Medicare rates (and they are based on self reported costs across the co…

> all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. This is actually close to what happens with private insurers- they negotiate with a hospital to pay n-times what Medicare pays for some set of treatments. So why does Medicare pay the least? Because they have the most patients covered of any insurance network in the US. That's a hell of a bargaining factor. More patients = cheaper prices. The logical conclusion i…

Except republicans and bush passed a law a decade ago saying the government can't negotiate drug prices for Medicare. It's beyond stupid and the main reason you see so many niche drugs go up 50x in price overnight lately. The companies have figured out they can exploit that law this way.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#77

Post by mtgx »

throwaway12iii wrote: post #61
sitkack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop using average. Median is a much better measure.

Median and average are not good representations of a distribution.

Also even media leaves out the poor who can't afford expensive procedures. It's why Obamacare is ultimately doomed to fail too.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#78

Post by jclulow »

StreamBright wrote: post #74
torgian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about quality/availability. In Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, Thailand; I’ve had amazing health care for the fraction of the price. Shit, a full cancer check only cost me 90 dollars in Japan. Getting my eyes fully checked for retinal tears cost me nothing due to national insurance in China. In some cases, maybe the US has better care. But the cost of that is just way too damn high. Yes, medical research in…

The US health care is optimised for the the p99, top 1% of the population who can afford anything. The other countries you mentioned optimise for the p50, the average person.

p50 would be the median, surely?

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#79

Post by redisman »

alexis_fr wrote: post #46
stickfigure wrote: post #23

The next logical step is to require written estimates in advance, just like the auto repair industry.

and require the same price for lone customers as what is negociated with insurances.

and then strangle the parasitic insurance companies that are paid handsomely by the consumer to build pointless bureaucracy and safeguard their market position

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#80

Post by scarejunba »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #18
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

This is one of those nice ideas that has some pretty serious hidden costs. You’d struggle to compare healthcare in the US to other countries, because the quality of healthcare available (talking about availability, not accessibility) in the US is generally superior to other countries. So you could end up simply eroding the quality of care in the US. Another thing people tend not to talk about when discussing healthca…

The Indians have better cardiac surgery outcomes. I don't care about anything but outcomes. It's no surprise, though. Their guy has done 150 surgeries in the last year. This guy has done maybe 40. No good. If things are so much better here, why are outcomes not as good? IMR, MMR, even with companies that have comparable or stronger definitions.

The evidence is constantly against US healthcare except for experimental or rare treatments. The doctors aren't any worse, surely.

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