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Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

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Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#51

Post by gnopgnip »

kurthr wrote: post #13

Presumably, this is based on ICD10 codes... but there can be 30 different services tied to a code. You still won't know what code is being charged until after the service is rendered, and if it's rack rate you won't know the actual rate your insurance will be charged, until THEY tell you... because that is proprietary information (just like the reason why your treatment was denied coverage). Imagine you have diabetes…

>Presumably, this is based on ICD10 codes... but there can be 30 different services tied to a code. You still won't know what code is being charged until after the service is rendered,

This is not the case in CA. Chargemasters have already been public since 2011, and they list everything the hospital will charge for.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#52

Post by HNLogInShit »

alexis_fr wrote: post #46
stickfigure wrote: post #23

The next logical step is to require written estimates in advance, just like the auto repair industry.

and require the same price for lone customers as what is negociated with insurances.

Exactly. It should be illegal to charge different patients different prices for the same service.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#53

Post by sitkack »

telotortium wrote: post #45
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

If you look at the actual household income in various countries, as opposed to the GDP, which doesn't always track household income as well for many OECD countries, it turns out that the US has pretty much the healthcare consumption expected for its average household income: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2018/11/19/why-everything... . Based on this analysis, I think the primary issue with US healthcare is the fa…

Please stop using average. Median is a much better measure.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#55

Post by txcwpalpha »

keerthiko wrote: post #50
txcwpalpha wrote: post #44

I take issue with this headline. Hospital prices are already , by law, public in the US. The new rule makes it required to post them online , whereas previously you might have to call/email the hospital to get the price list rather than looking at their website. This is an important distinction, IMO, because I have seen people saying that this is an important step because "insurance/patients can now negotiate easier…

If the only access you have to a price list is through a private comms channel, what guarantee do you have that you are receiving the same prices and service for a given price as someone else? If the prices were available through a centralized third party (government health agency or similar) then sure, it's not much of a difference, but if the only way before was by directly contacting the hospitals, then it being a…

There's nothing in this ruling that requires the price list, even online, to fit within your heuristic.

The hospital could choose to place the price list at a url of blahblahhospital dot com / 3424kjfksm34. And to get that URL, you have to call the hospital and ask for it. There is nothing in the rule going into effect on Jan 1 that says they have to plaster the price list on their front page or on Google.

For that matter, they still could give separate price lists to different parties, as long as said price lists are 'online' (eg price list for you is at our_prices dot html, whereas someone else's price list is at our_other_prices dot html).

And, beyond all of this, is the fact that even if you do get access to the price list, it is meaningless to you as a patient. The article discusses this. As a patient, if you want to know an actual realistic estimate of your costs, the only way to get that is to call/go into the hospital and ask, or to go through your insurance company estimator, both of which are already available and aren't changed by this new ruling.

Your points are all legitimate and ones I agree with, but I just don't think this new HHS rule does anything to meaningfully address them.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#56

Post by tehlike »

mikedilger wrote: post #21

I actually stiffed a doctor once because he refused to give a price up front and when I got the bill it was outlandish. I also made a huge scene in the intake/waiting room about this. I was leaving the United States at the time so I didn't really care about my credit record. To be slightly more honest: he wasn't the doctor assigned to me on intake, he was another doctor from another hospital across the street as a co…

most doctors in the US actually do not know about the prices of treatments as it changes based on insurance administrator/insurer, and then what the patient pays also have huge variability based on insurance administrator/insurer.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#57

Post by trevyn »

dakom wrote: post #40

How about transparency of medical records - i.e. if I provide some credentials, can I definitively get a copy of my medical history so that I can easily take it with me to another country/hospital? By definitively I mean within some federal regulation or system that doesn't depend on an employee at a particular hospital getting around to it on their coffee break.

You certainly can under HIPAA, and I’ve done this several times without unreasonable delay. If you’ve had issues, I’m sure the “sternly worded letter from a lawyer” approach would get the gears turning.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#58

Post by lostlogin »

trevyn wrote: post #47
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

This could also be due to people in the US simply seeking more care than in other countries.

What’s the logic in that? If the cost is socialised surely you’d expect more people to seek care than if they were paying?

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#59

Post by lostlogin »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #38
torgian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about quality/availability. In Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, Thailand; I’ve had amazing health care for the fraction of the price. Shit, a full cancer check only cost me 90 dollars in Japan. Getting my eyes fully checked for retinal tears cost me nothing due to national insurance in China. In some cases, maybe the US has better care. But the cost of that is just way too damn high. Yes, medical research in…

In the developed world, the price of routine checkups are not what people would generally be referring to when discussing _quality_ of healthcare. Generally speaking, the US has the best facilities, technology, expertise and pharmaceuticals available. Which is why people come from all over the world for procedures that simply aren’t available elsewhere. Again, I’m not talking about the problems with accessibility, me…

This weird argument pops up regularly. In relation to New Zealand (where I am) it’s argued that the US is subsidising the cost of drug scripts. It’s beyond me quite how NZs drug buying agency is running roughshod over the rights of drug companies that have multiple insurance companies in the US that are bigger customers. What’s the agenda behind this argument?

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#60

Post by throwaway12iii »

tehlike wrote: post #56
mikedilger wrote: post #21

I actually stiffed a doctor once because he refused to give a price up front and when I got the bill it was outlandish. I also made a huge scene in the intake/waiting room about this. I was leaving the United States at the time so I didn't really care about my credit record. To be slightly more honest: he wasn't the doctor assigned to me on intake, he was another doctor from another hospital across the street as a co…

most doctors in the US actually do not know about the prices of treatments as it changes based on insurance administrator/insurer, and then what the patient pays also have huge variability based on insurance administrator/insurer.

Most doctors in the US actually do know how pricing works.
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