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Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

technologyreview.com

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Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#11

Post by taneq »

everdev wrote: post #5

> Sestan acknowledged that surgeons at Yale had already asked him if the brain-preserving technology could have medical uses. Disembodied human brains, he said, could become guinea pigs for testing exotic cancer cures and speculative Alzheimer’s treatments too dangerous to try on the living. > The setup, jokingly dubbed the “brain in a bucket,” would quickly raise serious ethical and legal questions if it were tried…

This has always dumbfounded me about animal experimentation - it's perfectly OK to decapitate a pig to make bacon but it's somehow horribly inhuman to do so to potentially save millions of lives?

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#13

Post by mattnewton »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #6

That is genuinely horrifying. I seems people can stomach anything when you’re not experimenting on humans... A brain still a brain. If you don’t believe in a soul it seems logical to operate with the idea that as long as the brain has electrical waves propagating through it , it’s experiencing consciousness. waves resembling normal consciousness specifically

I think the brain was likely totally comatose, from the article:

“””

Sestan now says the organs produce a flat brain wave equivalent to a comatose state, although the tissue itself “looks surprisingly great” and, once it’s dissected, the cells produce normal-seeming patterns.

The lack of wider electrical activity could be irreversible if it is due to damage and cell death. The pigs’ brains were attached to the BrainEx device roughly four hours after the animals were decapitated.

However, it could also be due to chemicals the Yale team added to the blood replacement to prevent swelling, which also severely dampen the activity of neurons. “You have to understand that we have so many channel blockers in our solution,” Sestan told the NIH. “This is probably the explanation why we don’t get [any] signal.”

“””

But yes this would be scary if that wasn’t true.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#14

Post by jonathankoren »

taneq wrote: post #11
everdev wrote: post #5

> Sestan acknowledged that surgeons at Yale had already asked him if the brain-preserving technology could have medical uses. Disembodied human brains, he said, could become guinea pigs for testing exotic cancer cures and speculative Alzheimer’s treatments too dangerous to try on the living. > The setup, jokingly dubbed the “brain in a bucket,” would quickly raise serious ethical and legal questions if it were tried…

This has always dumbfounded me about animal experimentation - it's perfectly OK to decapitate a pig to make bacon but it's somehow horribly inhuman to do so to potentially save millions of lives?

It's because this could be some sort of bizarre unending Harlan Ellisonesque torture.

Torturing animals is has been considered immoral for many, many, many years.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#16

Post by jobigoud »

jonathankoren wrote: post #14
taneq wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always dumbfounded me about animal experimentation - it's perfectly OK to decapitate a pig to make bacon but it's somehow horribly inhuman to do so to potentially save millions of lives?

It's because this could be some sort of bizarre unending Harlan Ellisonesque torture. Torturing animals is has been considered immoral for many, many, many years.

And yet is done everyday for food production.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#17

Post by _8j50 »

This is too much. Uncrossable lines must be drawn immediately. Humanity cannot afford to "wing it" when it comes to ethics and morality at this scale. There needs to be clear lines where crossing means the highest criminal consequence to the researcher. And people funding it. And it needs to be a global effort.

Everything needs a balance.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#18

Post by __blockcipher__ »

mattnewton wrote: post #13
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #6

That is genuinely horrifying. I seems people can stomach anything when you’re not experimenting on humans... A brain still a brain. If you don’t believe in a soul it seems logical to operate with the idea that as long as the brain has electrical waves propagating through it , it’s experiencing consciousness. waves resembling normal consciousness specifically

I think the brain was likely totally comatose, from the article: “”” Sestan now says the organs produce a flat brain wave equivalent to a comatose state, although the tissue itself “looks surprisingly great” and, once it’s dissected, the cells produce normal-seeming patterns. The lack of wider electrical activity could be irreversible if it is due to damage and cell death. The pigs’ brains were attached to the BrainE…

Ah, good catch there. I stand corrected. I definitely agree a flat-line is way different from being fully conscious.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#19

Post by toomuchtodo »

_8j50 wrote: post #17

This is too much. Uncrossable lines must be drawn immediately. Humanity cannot afford to "wing it" when it comes to ethics and morality at this scale. There needs to be clear lines where crossing means the highest criminal consequence to the researcher. And people funding it. And it needs to be a global effort. Everything needs a balance.

7 billion people on this planet, pick an “uncrossable” line and I’ll find you someone who will cross it.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Best to find ways to govern ethical practices, instead of driving the research underground.

Re: Researchers are keeping pig brains alive outside the body

#20

Post by deytempo »

berbec wrote: post #8

The terrifying implications of this tech makes me shudder. Science fiction has beaten me to considering the potential for abuse. I'm picturing Hyperion meets Brainship with some Altered Carbon thrown in. It hurts my brain even to contemplate.

Yea, like you could end up disembodied in a laboratory hell with no way to scream for help
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