As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back • Hacker News Board

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#261

Post by hannasanarion » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

illumin8 wrote: post #202

twblalock wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How have those so-called breakthroughs had an effect on the world outside the cryptocurrency bubble? Who has used them in industry?

This comment is similar to looking at the Netscape browser in 1994 and asking who has successfully used a browser in industry. Or, like insisting in 2001-2002 that all dot-coms were like WebVan or pets.com and the Internet was just a fad and didn't provide any real value. If you have any understanding of the way technology is developed and becomes commercialized (hint: google "gartner hype cycle") you'll probably rea…

Why innovation? What research? It's so much hoo-ha over really expenaive append-only databases. It's been over ten years, the best anyone has come up with are ledgers, contracts that trigger when you don't want them to and can never be renegotiated, and pump and dump schemes. It's time to move on.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#262

Post by dustingetz » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

leppr wrote: post #252

dustingetz wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes of course they are liquid now , and of course you can trade it in crypto-crypto markets, the question is if you can trade it for USD cash money in a real bank account, eight months ago

There may have been more slippage than your startup was comfortable with, but the OTC market has always been liquid enough for startups to liquidate ETH/BTC from ICOs, even in the middle of the bear market.

show us some evidence!

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#263

Post by hannasanarion » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:25 AM UTC

ramontayag wrote: post #258

Nursie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the matter of value: I suspect that if we find ourselves able to send a message back in time two years (when BTC was less than $1,000 USD) and report that the price is now over $3,700, that we'll find this message to be met with an understanding that this is, at least, a validation of the use of blockchain tech as a store of value So just ignore everything in between? Yah, sounds great... > I suspect that if we…

It's actually useful in places that don't have great financial access. I'm guessing your estimate of "very few people" is from a place that has good access?

That makes absolutely no sense. If you have limited or intermittent internet access, why the hell would you put your money on the internet? Any outage will bankrupt you.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#264

Post by hannasanarion » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:29 AM UTC

pesmhey wrote: post #8

smacktoward wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody who knows anything about anything made any kinds of plans involving $20,000 Bitcoin. Except for Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and Barclays (see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-23/wall-stre... )...

What stops GS from replacing their fee-based offerings with a blockchain solution? Could this really be as obvious in hindsight as looking at Sears in the 90s not developing an online catalog?

What would block chain do for Goldman that a SQL database couldn't?

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#265

Post by hannasanarion » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:33 AM UTC

shemnon42 wrote: post #260

hannasanarion wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't going to spontaneously stop profit seeking at the expense of society. If things are going to change, the change needs to be coordinated. That's what government is for.

The change needs to be coordinated, but how do you coordinate action between multiple actors when some of those actors are nefarious and actually acting against the change?

By punishing them with the force of law, just like we do with everyone else who doesn't follow the rules.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#266

Post by afarrell » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:38 AM UTC

cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

> 2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology.

I’ve been hearing this notion, asserted with simplicity and exhaspiration, for the past 10 years. I don’t agree. “Technical solutions to social problems”, certainly do exist. Sewer systems that keep people from contracting cholera. Cold chain logistics systems that bring nutritious foods into the hearts of cities. Prosthetic limbs and wheelchairs that give people mobility. Locks which let people keep strangers from attacking them in their homes. Sms networks that let farmers understand the markets for their crops. Do these solutions have problems? Yes. We live in a world of tradeoffs and no matter how terrible the disease, we must balance benefits and harms for every treatment.

Failures reveal failure modes and a vocation kf building things in an increasingly complex world calls us to learn more broadly about the possible impact of our work and the history of systems made of humans. If we are to call engineering a profession, we can’t abandon our calling to solve the complex social ills of our societies.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#267

Post by tCfD » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:44 AM UTC

jklepatch wrote: post #96

What puzzled me is how comes blockchain startups did not sell their crypto for fiat just after their ICOs. I recommended this to several of my blockchain customers but none of them listened. I dont know if that was motivated by greed or something else. According to Game theory there is no benefit in not selling the crypto for fiat: if you raise lets say 10million during an ico (typical amount raised 6m ago), there is…

In most if not all cases the answer is: they can't. The price of crypto, especially that of the ICO era, is propped up by the same individuals that would most want to sell it. It's their HODLing of the coin that keeps it illiquid enough to allow them to drive the price up to the ico target and beyond. By casing out they'd be selling largely to themselves + the thin wisp of actual rubes they've duped into believing there's any substantial buy support under the listed market price.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#268

Post by arvinsim » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:45 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #214

cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny. The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don'…

> I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that we need regulation on the internet - because so far all of the pushers are shoveling more bullshit.

I agree. Two wrongs won't make it right.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#269

Post by Goladus » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:45 AM UTC

GavinMcG wrote: post #167

krrrh wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preston Byrne pointed out since there is no pyramid, this can’t be called a Ponzi scheme. It deserves a new name, the “Nakamoto scheme”: https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/

"Scheme" implies a unified/central schemer, though. We can already call it a fad, or a mania (a la tulip mania).

There is. The Schemer is Satoshi Nakamoto and anyone else involved with bitcoin's initial creation. They stand to profit handily by selling off their coins at many times their original, minimal value. But unlike a ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme, one can't trace fraudulent transactions directly to the schemers. It doesn't mean that it not a scheme.

Bitcoin isn't just a fad, it was clearly designed to enrich the original founders and early adopters at the expense of whoever is left holding the bag when the bubble bursts.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#270

Post by eaurouge » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 2:46 AM UTC

dustingetz wrote: post #262

leppr wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may have been more slippage than your startup was comfortable with, but the OTC market has always been liquid enough for startups to liquidate ETH/BTC from ICOs, even in the middle of the bear market.

show us some evidence!

What sort of evidence are you looking for? If indeed people were having problems cashing out as you seem to think, this would have been big news. In which case you should be able to find and provide evidence of this occurring. And, if I understand you correctly, you might as well ask for evidence that investors can sell their TSLA stock for cash.